Find Your People, Save Your Sanity

 Welcome to the inaugural chaos of Margs & Manuscripts! In this debut episode, Jenna and Cait dive straight into the fizzy, essential truth of the writing life: you cannot do this alone. From critique partners who tell you when your plot is wobbling, to cheerleaders who scream “SEND THE QUERY!” when you’re spiraling, they break down why finding your writing community is the secret sauce to actually finishing your book, and staying (mostly) sane while you do it. Grab a marg, grab your people, and let’s get this thing started. 

Transcript

Cait (00:00)
We definitely will do an episode where we have just read each other's books because we have not read each other's books yet.

Jenna G Judith (00:08)
We haven't,

but you don't even read fantasy

Cait (00:10)
No,

I'm gonna have to really psych myself up I don't really need it.

Jenna G Judith (00:13)
You are! I do think you need like a precursor

of like ACOTAR or something because diving right into mine would be like, buckle up,

Cait (00:20)
Okay.

Jenna G Judith (00:25)
is crazy.

Cait (00:32)
Welcome to this episode of Manuscripts and Manuscripts, the podcast where two writers talk about writing, publishing, and the existential crisis that comes with it. And I'm Cait. Cheers.

Jenna G Judith (00:40)
I'm Jenna.

Cheers!

Should probably hold this up while we're doing a toast. Sure, cheers.

Cait (00:49)
So, we're here.

Jenna G Judith (00:51)
We're here! So this is essentially

our therapy, louder and probably a bit more unhinged and there's drinks involved because I don't think there's a lot of ⁓ licensed therapists that would actually say yes to cocktails.

Cait (01:02)
Yes.

accurate, better drinks.

Jenna G Judith (01:13)
yourself exactly how this podcast came to be, well, of course there's a joke behind

I

Cait (01:21)
much started like all great ideas do, right? Like by being hung over in a writing workshop after a night of too many margaritas in New Mexico and one of us passing a note to the other in the middle of a writing workshop that said, hey, Margs and manuscripts.

Jenna G Judith (01:36)
And we totally got it. And then we instantly went on Amazon, purchased some mics, and poured more margaritas. And now just questionable decisions have been made.

Cait (01:47)
we do want to start off the first episode with one of the most important and what I think is one of the most underrated parts of being a creative in any field, but especially writing. And that is finding your people.

Jenna G Judith (02:02)
Yes, so it's the real reason why we're here at all.

Cait (02:06)
because writing is definitely a solo activity. But so is crying, and you definitely shouldn't do both alone. So that's why I wrote it.

Jenna G Judith (02:13)
Yeah, totally agree. it's,

you know, our critique groups can only go so far. when it comes to actually connecting with others and you want to be able to eventually find your people, that's kind of why we're here. So we want to be those people. We want you to. Yeah, yeah, you.

Cait (02:34)
Let us know when you get a terrible rejection. You need to talk about it.

Jenna G Judith (02:39)
You've been getting loads of those, Cait, but only the best ones.

Cait (02:41)
Yeah,

for sure, it's real fun.

Jenna G Judith (02:44)
And of

course, we want to celebrate the wins with you.

Cait (02:47)
Yep, and always keep you from setting your computer on fire.

Jenna G Judith (02:51)
Yeah, that's kind of important. They're a little expensive. So let's talk about how we found our people, who are our writing people, and how do you actually keep them. And because no matter where you are in the process, either if you're drafting, you're writing, you're world building like me, or querying, or even just promoting your best seller, the whole experience is way easier when you have people behind you,

in your corner.

and they're celebrating you.

Cait (03:20)
especially people who get it, because I don't know about you, but nobody in my household, my children nor my husband, the choices that I'm making. They don't count. Unless your husband is also writing. But then I feel like you should still find a different community outside of your husband. If you guys are both doing the same thing, you should still look outside. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (03:31)
No, husbands don't count. Absolutely not.

Yeah.

That would be an interesting show. That would

be an interesting episode of like, hey, both me and my partner are writers. And no, I don't see that going well.

Cait (03:58)
Yeah, yeah, tell us about that. that's you, please tell us about that partnership and what you want to But how did you, like what communities are you involved in? Like formal communities of writers.

Jenna G Judith (04:04)
That sounds messy.

So first was WFWA, which is Women's Fiction Writers Association.

So that is not women writers, it is people who write women's fiction, which is a genre or a subgenre. ⁓ And then Novel Bound is the second one that I am part of. And fun fact is that WFWA is how me and Cait became Insta friends.

Cait (04:20)
Yep.

Exactly.

Jenna G Judith (04:46)
when we were in New Mexico, legit, everyone thought that we were like long term best friends, that we knew each other for years. I'm like, no, literally just met her the other day. And they're like, what do you mean? Like, well, I posted something on Instagram about getting like rising star feedback and like I tagged WFWA and then Cait, you were like.

Cait (04:58)
Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (05:15)
you're part of WFWA too? I'm like, yes. And then I like coerced you into coming to New Mexico, so.

Cait (05:24)
Yep, your Insta besties.

I've never had that before. I've never met somebody on Instagram and then like, or like had like, ⁓ it's Jenna's, like, and then comment on your stuff and then like, we meet in real life. I've never, yeah.

Jenna G Judith (05:28)
I haven't either.

No.

Okay, that's really funny because neither of us met our husbands on dating apps. Like, you knew him long before dating apps. I met Cody at a bar and we don't know that experience of like from going from the digital world to real life and forming like a personal connection.

Cait (05:47)
Mm-hmm.

I do have this one story about when like I try

Jenna G Judith (06:10)
You did the, ⁓ you did the dating apps.

Cait (06:12)
No, I didn't have enough dating apps, but I did try to meet another writer on Instagram

But she posted this one story and she's in New and she was like, hey, I have an extra ticket to this concert You you have to buy the ticket, but if anybody's interested in coming with me, like last minute, somebody couldn't take the ticket.

I sent her a message and I was like, I will totally go to this concert with you. I'm not that far. I will come down and go to this concert with you. And she was just like, OK, yeah, here are my selling points. Like, I don't drink. I'm a lot of fun. I, you know, blah, blah, blah. Like, she just made it like trying to give this ticket to somebody who was going to have a lot of fun with her. And so I sent her a message back being like, here are my selling points.

I'm also writing a book. Nothing weird. was like, I'm also writing book and we're like, I think you're cool and we would be friends and it'd be super fun show to go to. And then she never sent me a message back.

Jenna G Judith (07:05)
Aww.

Cait (07:06)
I guess

I'm not going to Mumford and Sons.

Jenna G Judith (07:10)
Just mumford and sons!

Cait (07:11)
you

Jenna G Judith (07:14)
Maybe she was just really looking for a date.

Cait (07:17)
I think I honestly maybe she was that is such a good point it makes me feel so much better

the point is the writing community is very supportive on Instagram, on Tik Tok as well. I'm not on Tik Tok, but I know that ⁓ novel bound. do a lot of Tik Tok stuff, but there, there are more like cool Gen Z. they do cooler stuff than I'm used to. ⁓ so I should get more involved in that, but.

Jenna G Judith (07:34)
I'm not on TikTok either.

Yeah.

Like the Gen Z TikTok stuff. ⁓ maybe, maybe the, kink in our marketing armor.

Except have you ever looked at your demo of followers on Instagram? my God.

Cait (08:05)
No.

Jenna G Judith (08:09)
Okay, so not only are we doing a podcast together, I will be giving you like social media marketing 101.

Cait (08:14)
Yeah, I think

so. No, I have never looked at my demo, but tell the people. Please tell the people.

Jenna G Judith (08:18)
Okay, so you

can if you swap it from like a personal account to like a creator account or whatever the hell they want to call it this week. So my demo is 90 % female, obvi, but also 25 to 34 is like my largest, I think it's like 67 % of my followers. And I'm just like, okay, that's not bad.

Cait (08:27)
Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Jenna G Judith (08:47)
That's not bad, I can do that. Even though no female main character of mine will ever be below the age of 30. Like, I promise you this. So, because I know yours is based off of real life experiences, like when you were going through your 20s and 30s.

Cait (08:55)
That's so interesting.

Yeah, she's

like 27.

Jenna G Judith (09:09)
But I don't know, maybe I will change my mind one day, but today in 2025, this is my declaration.

Cait (09:19)
So I'm

going to have to look. I'm going to look. That was hilarious. So if you don't know your demo, I guess that's very useful. There you

Jenna G Judith (09:23)
Yes.

Mm-hmm,

think the silliest part is that I like in the captions or like in my post I'm like, what do 25 year olds like

like I don't know like I'm almost 36 I have two kids I live in Wisconsin nothing really okay a lot of interesting things happen here but that'll be for another day ⁓ but I don't feel like I'm that interesting and all like everyone younger than me it seems like they're far more interesting than I am

You're putting up with our random, you will be putting up with our random tangents and you will be part of the inside jokes at the end of this, I promise you.

Cait (10:08)
Yeah. I found WFWA. ⁓ Shout out to Ginger and everybody at WFWA. They're amazing. ⁓ Because I was just super desperate to go away and write. I was like, don't know. Do I have to get a hotel room by myself somewhere in the middle of Vermont away from my kids where I'm just writing for five days by myself?

Like that sounds awful. So I just Googled like, I was like, I don't know. Yeah, I, but like so lonely. I was like, what am going to do? in a cabin, but I just Googled writing retreats cause I figured that was saying. And the first one was WFWA in Alexandria that popped up, which isn't too far. So I went to that and honestly, I did not know how much I needed to find people that were

Jenna G Judith (10:38)
What are you talking about that sounds amazing?

Cait (11:05)
doing the same thing.

those people, like it doesn't matter what retreat you're on. I could not believe how kind the community was.

Jenna G Judith (11:14)
So kind, like I was terrified because I went with really only knowing you and I'd never met you in person. And then I got there and everyone was so nice. Like, I, what did I tell my husband? I said, like, it's like the first day of school, but then there's no evil bitches. Everyone's just really nice.

Cait (11:21)
and

You

can sit at any table. I feel like even like the tables where I felt like, oh, they seem to know each other or like maybe they were here before with each other. I would still go sit and they would be like, hi, like, what's your name? Where are from? And it was like, I was immediately part of the group, which I had never really experienced that sort of kindness from other women in my life. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (12:03)
No! No!

It's like you go to any young professionals networking stuff. No, it's not like that. There are cliques of people. We're all in it and we're all just a little crazy. So it's just really nice to be surrounded by people that get it. You don't have to explain the emotions and you don't have to explain the insecurities either. That's a really big one.

is you get there and you're meeting everyone and everyone's a little scared. Everyone's really excited

heart out in a book which is a very personal activity and they want to share it and it's so fun.

Cait (12:56)
It was so fun. And then the bonus about going on a retreat, again, it could be novel bound. It could be any one of these writers associations that exist, ⁓ is that they give you so much time to write. So you are doing it as solo as you want to or as involved as you want to. But at the same time, they'll have a morning workshop in something that just gets you in a room with other people talking about character arcs or something.

really useful and every time you go, I don't care if you have an MFA in creative writing or you're picking up a pen for the first time, like all of the information is always so fresh and there's always some really nice new take on it. ⁓ But just to be doing it with other people in the room and like being able to go get margs and talk about it after was super helpful. I do belong to Novel Bound too and their community is, I think it ⁓ specifically does a good job at

driving conversation even outside of the retreats because they do have like their own discord. ⁓ And they do like the conversation goes, you could be talking to somebody all day if you wanted to. It just like all my discords keep popping up throughout the day. And I'm like, that's useful. I'm gonna go chat with her about whatever. It just depends on what you're looking for. starting here is good. I'm talking about it. It's good.

Jenna G Judith (14:17)
Yeah, you gotta start somewhere folks.

Cait (14:21)
if you have any questions on either one of those organizations, ⁓ we're happy to answer them or any others that we know that you're thinking about joining, please reach out to us because it's one of the most important things, I think, to be able to do.

Jenna G Judith (14:39)
So my day job is I work with associations and organizations

them.

my coworker, he's like, how about you join one? I'm like, like what? What am gonna do? And he told me like he joined, he's really into bike riding.

So he joined, I forget which association, but it's essentially for road bikers. And I'm like, well, what do I do that would warrant one? So thank you, Google. Thank you, ChatGPT. I found a few options. I found the one that looked the most legit, and that was WFWA. I joined

then I did the Rising Star submissions, got some feedback, and then I'm like, screw it, doing a writing retreat. So I did the thing.

Cait (15:27)
Yum.

I definitely, without the workshops involved in both NovelBound and WFWA, I wouldn't be anywhere near the completion of a manuscript or querying. I'm querying right now and to be able to just talk to people about any rejection letter that I get or celebrate, like, hey, I a full request. Is this normal? I don't know what I would do. And I just wouldn't have made it this far. I would have given up or I would have.

Jenna G Judith (15:36)
God no.

No!

Cait (16:00)
Yeah, would've been like, can't do this, or I'm not good enough, or whatever we tell ourselves.

Jenna G Judith (16:06)
Yeah, I would have given up like a hundred times over if it wasn't for knowing that other people were going through the shit.

Cait (16:13)
I wrote one specific scene in my book at the first ⁓ retreat that I went to. And it was a scene where my main character finds out she's being cheated on ⁓ at a really bad community theater production of Mamma Mia. ⁓ Shout out if you're doing a bad production of Mamma Mia right now. ⁓ You get the joke. ⁓

And it was just like a super fun scene to write. And I think that when I read that scene, I can hear that fun that I was having at the retreat. I can hear how happy I am in that scene. It just, it like comes through the page that like I was just having a really good time where I was when I was writing it.

Jenna G Judith (16:54)
You see, I wish my book was like this. Mine's like super dark and dismal at times. So, isn't exactly one of the verbs nor adjectives one would use in the midst of my story. So, yeah, I rewrote my beginning for like the 12th time while I was at the reading, the writing retreat in New Mexico.

Cait (17:02)
Yeah.

Yes, it's refreshing. It's refreshing.

We definitely will do an episode where we have just read each other's books because we have not read each other's books yet.

Jenna G Judith (17:29)
We haven't, well, okay, yours is like done and mine is done with a lot of asterisks and like.

Cait (17:36)
I want a big

read though. definitely like, we just need to do where we don't even talk about it at all and we just come in to record having just read each other's books. We're definitely, doing it. Episode I do I'm putting in right now.

Jenna G Judith (17:49)
like

but you don't even read fantasy

Cait (17:54)
No,

I'm gonna have to really psych myself up I don't really need it.

Jenna G Judith (17:56)
You are! I do think you need like a precursor

of like ACOTAR or something because diving right into mine would be like, buckle up, this is crazy.

Cait (18:03)
Okay.

And

this is why communities matter.

I have a question. I just thought of this. if you could like have like who would be like your dream either critique partner or beta reader like anybody like alive or dead like if you could just send your book to one person who's like your ultimate person you'd be like I want you to read this book.

Jenna G Judith (18:17)
Okay.

It would be Sarah J Maas because her world building, specifically because of her world building and her female main character in the Throne of Glass series is, it is the best. People say that The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, that's some crazy good world building.

Cait (18:58)
Thank

you.

Jenna G Judith (18:59)
Yeah, that's neat, but that's like all men. Like there's literally just...

Cait (19:05)
That's such a point.

Jenna G Judith (19:06)
whole lot of testosterone and that's not really helpful. So her world building

It is the crème de la crème of world building where like things make sense. There's not a lot of plot holes. The female main character is a badass, but also not one dimensional. And probably Allie Hazelwood for like the contemporary romance side of things. Yeah.

Cait (19:32)
Okay.

Jenna G Judith (19:34)
Because she is the queen of like, she has her romance arc dialed in so that every book she writes is just, yes, it's minorly predictable, but that's kind of the point. But it is so good. And so like, there are moments of laughter and joy and sadness and ⁓ She's great. I love her. Yeah. What about you?

Who would you want to read your book or send your query to?

Cait (20:01)
Yeah, I mean, I think when I'm thinking of asking you, I'm thinking of literally ultimate critique, partner but also the person that whenever you do have your book in your hands and you're like, I just, you know what? I'm going to send it to, I'm just going put it in the mail and send it to whoever. I literally have that because, I don't mean my husband did this for our wedding. I don't know why.

Jenna G Judith (20:24)
Who is it?

HUUUU

Cait (20:28)
But we sent invitations to who on the whole face of the planet would you like, do you idolize for no reason or for a great reason, but would you want to have at your wedding? Yeah. Absolutely. That's not who I book, but that's a really good one to know.

Jenna G Judith (20:41)
Reese Witherspoon. Shut up, that's who.

Okay.

Cait (20:51)
I sent mine to you're in a love. Ours was like, we ended up doing like who was like our biggest influence in our life, who would be like special at our wedding. And he like loves this jazz singer, Jamie Cullum, and he like sent it to Jamie Cullum. And I'm obsessed with, I wrote a travel book, a book about like the millennial like kind of you pray love story. And I grew up obsessed with travel and travel TV shows and all that. So I sent mine to this woman, Samantha Brown, who has done a lot of travel shows.

But that's who my wedding invite to got sent to. But from my book, think, yeah, I think Mindy Kaling. Yeah, I dream about being able to put it in a package and just send it to, I don't know. I'm acting like I know where these people live, but I know she has an office at Warner Brothers. So I'm like, maybe I'll just say I do have an address to Mindy Kaling at Warner Brothers. But Mindy Kaling.

Jenna G Judith (21:27)
Love that.

my God.

Cait (21:50)
I want her to be my critique partner. I want her to my manuscripts and tell me if it's funny or not. I just think she's ultimate. Or like Tina Fey. Or you know what I mean? Those are my girls. If they could be in my community of writers. Actually, there's also this woman who writes.

Jenna G Judith (22:02)
yes!

Cait (22:15)
for Mindy Kaling and Tina Fey. She's involved in like 30 Rocks. She's involved in the Mindy Project and she's a writer and you never hear her name, her name, but she's Tracy Wigfield. And I'm hoping I'm saying her name right on a podcast. I could totally be messing it up. But she's from Boston, which Mindy Kaling's from Boston as well. So represent Boston. But she writes on all of these

Jenna G Judith (22:27)
Haven't heard of her.

it.

Cait (22:45)
shows that you watch and half the jokes that we probably quote are probably hers and I just want I want to have a glass of wine with her and just yeah I wish I was sitting next to her at some workshop which I never will be because she will never be going to indie publishing workshops with me but

Jenna G Judith (23:05)
Probably not. No.

Cait (23:06)
Drop a comment, let us know who your ultimate, who would you want to read your book or be in your critique group or be a part of your community because.

Jenna G Judith (23:08)
Yes.

Or

if you did an appropriate amount of stalking and you could find their actual address and send them a book.

Cait (23:20)
Just

send them your book.

Jenna G Judith (23:24)
So when I first started my Instagram page, away from my personal page, because no one needs to see that many photos of my children on the day to day. But it was a lot of just books to grammars, avid readers, and I kind of started off that way. And I still do that content, and I still love that content. But there's a subgenre.

Cait (23:38)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jenna G Judith (23:51)
of like a subset of authors that are part of like the Instagrammy thing and all of them are really kind and they're not like judgy at all and if you just message them and like I've had people ask me like hey would you read ⁓ like my ARC I just have it like a digital version I don't have like the published version I'm like absolutely like

Cait (23:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (24:18)
Yeah, my TBR is probably like 45 books right now. But, you know, I'll do the things and everyone's just like so willing to just either share your posts, celebrate in your wins, or kind of educate like the books to grammars about how writing is really hard. So even just starting that way, I'm just...

Cait (24:40)
Yes. That is such

a great point. think, too, the thing about even just like dipping your toes into the community on Instagram, which it seems like Instagram is the best platform for writers to connect with writers. ⁓ But like what I find so fascinating, too, about being a part of these associations and on the community on Instagram is like, you could be...

Jenna G Judith (24:56)
Yeah.

Cait (25:08)
somebody who's literally written 10 pages of your book and has never written anything else in their entire lives, or you could be a New York Times bestseller and you're all in the same boat. And nobody's like, I'm not talking to you because like, those are out there. They're out there. But I think those people are not going to the workshops and the retreats or are members of the same communities that they don't have the community mindset.

Jenna G Judith (25:16)
my God.

No.

No.

Cait (25:38)
But I think that the people that do, it's incredible. It's incredible the amount of resources that you gain just because in a workshop, you're sitting next to somebody who's sold 20,000 books. And you're just in the same spot as they are. And they're so open to like, hey, here's my email, or if you ever have any questions about.

Jenna G Judith (25:53)
Great.

Yeah.

Cait (26:04)
how to choose an agent or how to, like what you should ask him if they're getting out and offer a representation, like things like that, like to just be able to have those resources is one of the best parts too.

Jenna G Judith (26:14)
And just,

and asking the questions. I think that's what a lot of people are scared to do, is ask what they deem as like, what does a successful author look like? Asking them about their journey, and no one's gonna shit on you. Like, if you ask a question, like we were sitting in that indie publishing workshop, and I like just raised my hand, and I said, I'm like, how much did that cost you? And,

Cait (26:20)
Mm-hmm.

Jenna G Judith (26:42)
She told us and she said, yeah, I have it all documented in a spreadsheet of how much. Yes, and I'm like, so you share the knowledge with us. We're not competitive. Should we be?

Cait (26:48)
I'll send you the spreadsheet.

No, there's, and everybody has

the same sense that there's a seat for everyone at the table. And I think when you are in the trenches,

Jenna G Judith (27:01)
Yes.

Cait (27:04)
I think that when you are in the places that we are, whether you're finishing your novel, you're in the query trenches, or your book's on sub, or you have low sales, it can truly feel like you don't have any power over your seat at the table. can truly feel like you don't have a voice. just want to end by saying joining these communities.

Listen to me. Notice me. I'm working just as hard as you guys are. And it feels like it gives you more power and control over your craft and your art, but most importantly, your voice. And so that's what we're all doing here, right?

Jenna G Judith (27:45)
I was explaining this to someone that you just need to believe that you are important. And once you believe you're important and your story is important to tell, like the story we're actually writing but also this one, then when you ask the questions or when you make those connections, everyone is gonna be like, I wanna be like them. No one cares how many

Cait (27:50)
Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (28:09)
Okay, personally, I will care about how many books I've sold, but that's not your value to people that you're meeting. It's how important is your writing to you? Is it something super fun? Great. Is it something that you wanna do full-time? Awesome. But if you feel important and you feel like writing is an important part of you, we're all just gonna give you a big warm, big old warm hug.

Cait (28:15)
No.

Mm-hmm.

I know the feeling of not thinking that you belong at the table, but you do. ⁓ Here, our goal is to get more voices involved, right? Create a community. ⁓ So I think that if you have any thoughts, you want to share with us your

Jenna G Judith (28:46)
YEEEE

Cait (28:57)
community or what's been working for you. Again, if you have any questions about joining ours definitely comment on our Instagram

We want to have more readers on, we want to have more writers on, we want everybody's voices to be heard because that's what we're here for as well.

Jenna G Judith (29:12)
And we want to celebrate you because my story isn't the best story. Your story is the best story.

Cait (29:20)
Everybody's story is the best.

Jenna G Judith (29:21)
That was like a collective your story, not

like a, I love you Cait, but.

Cait (29:26)
Her story

is the best.

Jenna G Judith (29:33)
Sorry, Ray Ray just like bopped in here like right when we were doing that. I'm like.

Cait (29:39)
We're good. Do you end it there? Should we do a cheers? Cheers for our first episode. I think we did it.

Jenna G Judith (29:43)
Cheers!

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, ⁓ this is gonna be a doozy and this is... we're gonna get the technical shit down, I promise you.

And you know John's gonna come home and he's like, you literally duct taped your camera?

Cait (30:05)
Yeah, yeah, he sure