From Book One to Book Two: The Emotional Whiplash

Typing The End feels euphoric.
Starting the next book? Immediately humbling.

In this episode of Margs & Manuscripts, we’re talking about the emotional whiplash that hits writers between finishing one project and daring to begin another — the adrenaline, the crash, the identity crisis, and the quiet panic of wondering if you’ll ever be able to do it again.

We dive into:

• The high of finishing a manuscript (and briefly believing you’re the next Emily Henry)
• The crash that follows: querying anxiety, imposter syndrome, and comparison spirals
• How writers choose their next project — and how different it’s allowed to feel
• Shifting tone, voice, or genre without losing confidence
• When to push forward and when to actually rest
• Why book #2 is emotionally weirder than anyone warns you

We’re joined by Susan Poole, award-winning novelist and essayist, who shares what the space between projects has looked like in her own career, what she wishes someone had told her before starting again, how to emotionally reset, and why starting over is always messier than we expect.

If you’ve ever finished a book and thought, Great. Now what? ... this episode is for you.

🥂 Here’s to finishing the damn thing… and finding the courage to start the next damn thing.

Transcript

Cait (00:02)
So on today's episode, we want to talk about going from book one to book two. How do you really know that you are at the end or what to do when you're querying? ⁓ Because writing a novel, like, it's kind of like birthing a child, right? And writing the next novel is like when everybody is asking you when you're ready for baby number two, right after you just had the first one. So you're going to chat about that today.

Jenna G Judith (00:28)
Susan Poole is joining us today and she has a very unique perspective on this because guess what? She published her first one and she's working on her second and her third. So we just wanted to chat with her. We know her through WFWA. She's a wonderful human and we kind of want her to just hang around with us all the time.

Cait (00:53)
welcome to this episode of Marks and Manuscripts. We are so excited. We have one of our favorite people here as a guest. we just wanted to start off by toasting to all of you because this is our first episode since we have launched and we are just like completely overwhelmed with all the messages and... ⁓

comments on our Instagram and TikTok from all of you guys like supporting us in the community and we want to thank you so much for that. So here's to you today. That is our opening post. There is a couple people I like want to shout out specifically because we have been chatting nonstop and you have been supporters from the beginning. So Nicole Yvette, you're amazing. Lane Patten my gosh, thank you so much for all of your help sharing everything and just listening.

Jenna G Judith (01:24)
Cheers!

Susan Poole (01:25)
Cheers!

Cait (01:41)
Karen Selby, it's been so nice to meet you. Kristi Leonard, of course, and Meg Rosenthal, like, we'll tag you in this and make sure you see it. But thank you, cheers to you, and cheers to everybody tuning in. Thanks again. So today, we have Susan Poole. If you don't know her already, Susan Poole is a storyteller who's road to publication.

Jenna G Judith (01:52)
Thanks!

Cait (02:05)
is every bit as twisty as the moral gray zones that she loves to write. After nearly a decade of honing her craft, she's released her debut novel, Out of the Crash, with Wildrose Press in 2025. Fun fact, it was the third book that she has finished, so proof that persistence is key. Maybe just a little bit of dash of luck, but really, it does pay off. She's a mother, she is a lawyer, she's a non-profit exec, she's a cancer survivor.

and Susan pulls from a life that refuses to fit into tidy categories. So we love that about her. ⁓ She's currently cooking up a modern twist on fried green tomatoes and revising an earlier manuscript to see if it's ready for its comeback tour. Susan lives in Cleveland with her husband and her three grown kids. ⁓

Susan Poole (02:37)
Yeah.

Cait (02:50)
are out in the world. They don't live with you anymore. And two extremely codependent dogs. ⁓ She met us at the WFWA retreat earlier this year and instantly fit into the chaos. So proof that the writing community is truly magic. And we are so excited to have her on Marks and Manuscripts today. So thank you for being here, Susan. We are thrilled. We've been waiting.

Susan Poole (02:55)
Right.

my gosh, stop loving me. I'm flattered that you asked.

Cait (03:16)
It's

gonna be school fun.

Jenna G Judith (03:17)
Yes, you were like literally the first person that came to mind when we're like, we should have guests.

Cait (03:23)
Here is her book. Here is the plug for her book. We did give it away in our November book box. ⁓ So, Ashley who reads books, leave your review. ⁓ It's amazing and I have to say that Susan, actually, I met her at my first WFWA retreat and ⁓ she, I had been in a hole for so long writing my own book. I had never met anybody that had written their own book.

Susan Poole (03:24)
Thank you.

Cait (03:50)
And Susan was the first person I met and then when her book came out it was the first time I had ever read a book that somebody I knew had written and it was really special for me so thank you Susan and that's why I love this community so much because you meet these people, you make these friends and then you read their work and you are just like even more blown away by who they are and then what they can do and so ⁓

That's why we're here today. It's been amazing.

Jenna G Judith (04:21)
So we want to start off with a drinking game because these are real margaritas today. we're just gonna do a little take a drink if ⁓ author edition Okay, so take a drink.

if you actually wrote today.

Yeah, I know, I didn't.

Cait (04:41)
Yeah, it should be

take a drink if you didn't write today.

Jenna G Judith (04:45)
If that's the case then yeah. Okay, take a drink if you've ever forgotten your character's full name. is why we have spreadsheets, folks.

Cait (04:54)
or realize you didn't

give them a last name until your query.

Jenna G Judith (04:58)
Take a drink if you wrote something and then immediately deleted it. yeah. ⁓ Susan, you're like, every piece of thing I write is wonderful.

Cait (05:08)
Okay.

Susan Poole (05:09)
Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (05:11)
You wrote in your manuscript. Fill this in later.

Cait (05:15)
yeah,

I definitely did.

or like, add some banter here.

Jenna G Judith (05:19)
Parentheses. Maybe not this.

Take a drink if you took a break from writing and just wanted to check Instagram and suddenly it was an hour later.

Cait (05:31)
or trying to get us drunk.

Jenna G Judith (05:32)
Mm-hmm.

Take a drink if you have more than five stories started. Not finished. More than five.

Cait (05:38)
More than five? That's a lot.

I'd say I'm at three. Susan feels like she has a lot. You're at two. Okay.

Jenna G Judith (05:44)
I'm at three.

Susan Poole (05:46)
I'm a two. I'm a two.

I'm a two. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (05:49)
that's not bad. So are you like a once you start you have to finish it?

Susan Poole (05:55)
Yes, working on two at a time is hard for me. Like I'm tunnel vision, so yeah.

Jenna G Judith (06:00)
Take a drink if you realize that you totally lied and your entire outline needs to be scrapped.

Cait (06:07)
Outline Schmalt line. one does.

Susan Poole (06:09)
I was gonna say, who has an outline?

Jenna G Judith (06:13)
Yes, I do. ⁓

we really wanted to just pick your brain on what it's like, because I know you said you like to start and finish and it's very hard for you to transition to other stories at the same time. What was that like going from, okay I'm done with this, to starting the next story? Was that like a really daunting task or was it like exciting for you?

Susan Poole (06:40)
I mean, I think it was exciting at first, but then when you get into it further down the path, it becomes daunting, especially since I'm kind of knee deep in book marketing right now. My book's only been out since the end of July. So for instance, I did a book club appearance a couple of weeks ago and they asked me what celebrity my main character reminded me of.

and I immediately went to the book that I'm working on and I wasn't even thinking about out of the crash because I wrote it three and a half years ago or something like so I moved on and now and then somebody at the book club actually said you know if you're gonna do these book club appearances you really should brush up on your characters and I was like I mean it was it was funny but I do get like I'm as a reader I am the girl I read a lot

Jenna G Judith (07:31)
⁓

Susan Poole (07:38)
but I never remember afterwards. I can't remember plots, I remember general, I remember if I liked it. So even with my own stuff, was like, gosh, I don't remember. wouldn't, I don't know. So I do think the more I try to do this and move on, but then get sucked back into the book that I'm marketing, it is becoming more more daunting, like you say.

Cait (07:59)
I think that's such a good point, and it's something that we don't talk about a lot, especially as aspiring authors or authors ⁓ looking for publication now or querying, is that there is such a time that goes by between either when you hit the end, when you find your agent, and then when you go out on sub, and then when it gets picked up, and then by the time it gets published. What was that timeline for you?

Susan Poole (08:27)
It was just long. mean, I. And then you also wonder, like, I think I was offered my contract in August of twenty twenty four, but it released in July of twenty twenty five. So you start like the revision back and forth with your editor. But like even then, after they signed off on it, there are still things I wanted to change. And I was like, could I go back and say, hey, there's one more thing I want to change? Or when is it really done?

Jenna G Judith (08:29)
Never ending.

Susan Poole (08:55)
You know, like, cause I feel some people just are done and move on, but I'm constantly thinking of things like, I wish I would have had this in there. ⁓ I wish I wouldn't have had this in there, you know? So yeah, I need to get better about that and just move forward.

Jenna G Judith (08:56)
Yeah.

Cait (09:12)
⁓ So it was August to July, and then when you, I know you signed with Wild Roads Press, when you signed or when you decided to publish with them, did you sign on to do a book too immediately or did they just publish this book? Okay, yeah, got it. So what was the deciding factor that was like, I need to start the next book? When were you like, this has to be new?

Susan Poole (09:19)
Okay.

They just published this book. So I don't have two books. Right. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (09:40)
Yeah,

like was it right after?

Cait (09:41)
since there wasn't a deadline.

Susan Poole (09:42)
So I think I tried to keep myself busy when I was queering, like for sure, because I was in the queering trenches for a long time. And I didn't want to keep revisiting it and rewriting it. So that's when I started this new book. Because I wanted to distract myself. I wanted to keep getting better, you know, that kind of thing. But then people do tell me, and I don't know if this is valid advice or whatever, but I've heard from several people that you really want to get another one out there pretty

quickly, not quickly, but within the two years. So that's kind why I came up with the idea of maybe I should revisit one of the ones that died on the vine that didn't make it out of the query trenches and maybe I should brush that up. And so that's kind why I'm juggling two projects right

Cait (10:29)
I've heard that advice a lot because I'm in the query trenches right now, which is like, hey, you need to get yourself through this or not be checking your inbox 500 times a day, so you should start on the next project. But I ⁓ have too much millennial anxiety to put my mind into another place. And I am so afraid of moving on from this era of the book.

Susan Poole (10:29)
I don't know if you're into it.

Yes.

Cait (10:57)
You know what mean? Like you said, that era was so long ago for me. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm ready to move on from this era if I'm still in the querying zone with it. And then they're going to come back to me and be like, let's edit it. And then I have to jump back into that era that I've already kind of moved on from. Did you have any difficulty with that, going back into changing stuff?

Jenna G Judith (10:58)
Yeah.

Susan Poole (11:21)
⁓ Well, I think everybody has to find what's best for them. And for me, I knew that if I stayed with the book that eventually got published, I would have been tweaking it forever. And there wasn't even a time I remember thinking to myself, ⁓ because I got a few full requests from agents. And I thought, ⁓ now that I've made it better, should I go back to them and say, hey, the last version you have, I've made it better. Can I send you different pages?

I was afraid that would make me look like a crazy person. So I just said, I can't do that. And so I literally said, this is done. But then when I got my contract and I had to jump back into that other book, I just quickly abandoned the new one because I was so just over the moon that I was getting published. so that transition wasn't hard at all. I just said, OK, this other one is on the back burner. I'm not going to even think about it. And so I didn't think about it for at least a year, if not one.

Cait (12:18)
That honestly sounds so nice though.

Jenna G Judith (12:20)
if you were to compare that entire life cycle of going back and then leaving it alone, going back, leaving it alone.

How would you compare that to an actual relationship with a person? Because I feel like we all have, it's like a heartbreak at some point. And then you're like, I'm annoyed by you. ⁓

Susan Poole (12:42)
So that's interesting that you asked me that question. I am a terrible boundary person. Like I have a terrible time setting boundaries. even like people in my life that suck energy from me, I let it happen until I can't take it anymore, right? So if your analogy is like, what do you do there? I have no good advice because I really will just let it happen and happen until I can't take it anymore. And then I would step back and finally say I've had enough and then somehow it always creeps back in.

Jenna G Judith (12:43)
You

Mm-hmm.

Susan Poole (13:12)
So I have no words of wisdom for you there whatsoever. know my weaknesses and that is a big one.

Jenna G Judith (13:19)
So that's like the boyfriend that's treated you poorly, he keeps coming crawling back.

Susan Poole (13:25)
Yes, yes, yeah.

Cait (13:27)
I'm so curious, because now that you're writing the new one, do you feel like you're a published author now? Or do you feel like that author or writer writing your first novel again with all of the things that we experience, like the...

Jenna G Judith (13:37)
Yeah!

Cait (13:46)
panic and imposter syndrome and like, this good enough? did it like having that published book, which I think like we all romanticize in our head, that we're all of a sudden gonna gain this like magical confidence once we have a book out in the world. Is that, does that happen? Is that real?

Susan Poole (14:02)
I some days, some days I really have to sit back and go, I can't even believe that this dream actually came to fruition. So then I feel really good about it. And then there's other days where, like, of course, part of me thinks, well, if I get another one out there and like become a career author, can I leverage the fact that this book is resonating with people and it's, you know, it has some decent sales and some decent reviews? Will that like,

bring me some more brand awareness. And so there are days where I go, okay, you know, I'm kind of doing this thing. And then other days I go, ⁓ well, what if the one that I'm kind of resurrecting now, it died on the vine for a reason probably. And so what if I put it out there and people go, wow, I liked your first one, but I don't like your second one, which was really, you know, my second one. so I...

The self doubt, I don't think for me will ever go away. I'm constantly overthinking and constantly wondering. ⁓ I never wonder if this publication was a fluke because I know in my heart how hard I worked and you know, how much I put into it. So that part of my lack of confidence has, has dissipated, but for future projects, I think it's just all the same, honestly.

Cait (15:22)
love that. I love that your attitude is like, I think that there are so many authors that you talk to who are like, I know, I'm so lucky. Isn't it amazing? Like, I can't believe it's happening. And it's like, if it happens to me, if I go with the traditional publisher, I think I would be like, I have been working my ass off on this book for so long. Like, yes, it should be happening. You know how long this process is?

Susan Poole (15:45)
Yeah.

⁓ I went to a book signing once and there was a woman there who had multiple books published and she was, I don't know, maybe in her late 60s, early 70s and one of her books, one of her multiple books got picked up by Netflix and they were doing a series and she said now everyone in her circle was like, my gosh, that's so amazing. you're an overnight success. And she was like, overnight success? I mean, she was like,

People have no idea all the years, all the angst, all the rejection. And she was like, I didn't want to be offended, but I was really like, really, I'm not an overnight sex, I've been doing this for decades. So I do think that's something that if you're not in this world, you really don't get.

Cait (16:31)
No, and there is, I truly believe ⁓ the longer that, meeting people in the community, doing it yourself, the longer that you do it, the more you realize that there are no overnight successes, that things are truly, like, the only people who get success are the people who show up and do the thing.

Jenna G Judith (16:32)
Totally.

Cait (16:54)
And people who talking about it don't just one day like wake up and the thing that they've been talking about is happening. It's like it's the people who show up every day and create the thing and do the thing. So it's important that you do the thing and you probably do it for a long time before. So it's really good. It's really good to hear that from somebody who's kind of on the other side of all of this, because it's like it's we're in the part right now where we're putting in the work and it and it feels like. ⁓

Jenna G Judith (16:56)
Yes.

Cait (17:22)
you're putting in the work. Or you're showing up for nothing almost at this point. It feels like you're showing up and nothing's happening because you're just showing up and you're creating for so long and then you're showing up and you're querying and you're showing up and you're going to that pitch event or you're going to that workshop and you feel like what am I doing? But it's all putting those pennies in the bucket too.

Susan Poole (17:28)
Yeah.

But I also think you, like I feel like I've shifted my mindset to, to, to me the end goal, yes I dreamt of publication, but like now that I look back at it, really I love writing. I love learning about writing, I love the craft of writing, I love meeting other writers like you guys. And so some days I just tell myself, if nothing else ever happened, that should be enough, right? I mean, it's a hard, that's a hard thing to swallow sometimes, but.

I really do repeat it to myself every day. Like I feel like I got where I wanted to be. And if I don't sell two books, which I've sold more than two, but you know, if nothing ever happens after this, I'm pleased with where I am, but I'm gonna still keep working, you know.

Jenna G Judith (18:20)
Yeah

Cait (18:20)
I bought two.

Yeah. ⁓ yeah, of course.

I have a question. You wrote ⁓ Out of the Crash after, I mean, it's based on a tragedy, and it's based on ⁓ being a cancer survivor, and it's based on all of these things that are deep and heavy themes.

I'm so curious because your next book you teased that it's a version of fried green tomatoes

tomatoes,

and I'm so curious as to how that transition is going for you from something that's this deep to, I'm trying to show the book as much as I can, to, I don't know, something, do you feel like it's a little bit more lighthearted, or how has that tone shift worked for you?

Susan Poole (19:11)
So I'm trying to make it more lighthearted. think it actually comes more from a place of, so the main character is leaving her home and because she has some mobility issues, so she's gotta go live with her son. And so right now my mom has become very dependent on me and I see how hard it is for her to give up her independence. So I think there still is a heaviness there because that particular character, the one who's all of a sudden like,

was the nurturer, now needs to be nurtured. ⁓ She's all of a sudden struggling with like, what about me? Like, why doesn't anyone know who I am? They just see me as this needy person. So I am trying to make it a little lighter. And so the other character kind of balances her out because she's this young bubbly social media wannabe influencer. And she kind of races into this tattoo parlor to videotape it. And she's winking at herself and everything. And she meets this woman.

who has had a lifetime of tattoos, who's getting ready to leave her hometown. So there's kind of like the heaviness, but then the lightness to kind of balance it out. So I think, and I'm only about 30 % finished with it, but this one I did outline. So this was my first attempt at outlining, proud of me, right? So yeah, so I think I have an idea of where it's going. So it's still a little heavy, but hopefully fun too.

Jenna G Judith (20:22)
Bye.

Cait (20:31)
little

bit. Yeah, that's that's really exciting. That sounds awesome.

I'm actually really curious too to chat a little bit about ⁓ how hard it is or easy it is to go from the end to the high of being like, that's done, how?

Jenna G Judith (20:50)
I did it.

Cait (20:51)
What do you do when you start a new project? Like, literally.

Jenna G Judith (20:56)
Like what is the process for you of I am sitting down and I'm starting something fresh?

Cait (21:00)
I am sitting down and

I'm chapter one.

Susan Poole (21:04)
Yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like I've evolved a lot from the beginning, but and it was probably through a WFWA workshop that I attended about author branding. And I literally had an aha moment because if I look at the three books that I've written, the first one was about a serial killer. The second one, because that's what I like to read. I love to read mystery thriller. Not horror, but...

Jenna G Judith (21:24)
I like it.

Cait (21:24)
I didn't know that.

Jenna G Judith (21:28)
Like, hefty.

Susan Poole (21:31)
And then the second one, the one that I'm resurrecting now is about murder on a reality TV show. But it's, I'm kind of pitching it as like a cold play situation because the, the woman who's hired it's, this is, I don't have my elevator pitched down yet for this, but she, there's a woman who is a defense attorney. Her husband cheated on her. She found out about it on live reality TV. And then her husband wants her to defend him when the girlfriend is murdered.

Jenna G Judith (21:49)
Well, you're fine.

Susan Poole (22:01)
So that one is romantic suspense. So you've got Serial Killer, you've got this reality TV show, and then you've got Out of the Crash, which is, I think, a lot more realistic. It was really inspired by something that happened in my hometown for real. So ⁓ sometimes I say the only reason I got this published is because I was very passionate about this one because I watched it unfold, or a version of it unfold in real life.

But when I went to this workshop about branding, was like, I can tie them all three together. Even though they sound completely unrelated, they all deal with the idea of moral gray area, nothing's ever black and white, nothing's like it seems. There's always two sides to a story, which all of a sudden became my tagline for everything I write about. Even like I do blogging, I like to dig into that in blogging. And so I think when I started this next project,

I asked myself that question, like how does that fit into that author brand? Like this book, Fried Green Tomatoes, how does that black and white thing play out in a scenario with an older woman befriending a younger woman? ⁓ Where they both think they're completely different, but they find out by the end of the book that they're very similar. So I think, and I worked a little bit with a book coach too, and she was always saying, what's the point of your story? Like why are you telling a story? What's the point? So instead of starting with chapter one, my advice is,

You know, start with why are you writing this? What's the point? How does it fit into your author brand?

Cait (23:34)
That is good, yes.

Jenna G Judith (23:34)
I love that!

Like, I wanna now write this and put it on my wall, like I have a pegboard in front of my desk. Like, what's the point?

Cait (23:39)
I know. This is why we have way smarter people on.

Jenna G Judith (23:43)
like my wheels were like turning when you're saying that because like I come from marketing, I come from branding. And that's always been like very much like in the forefront of how do I present myself like online, but also in like my writing. But I don't think I've ever actually heard someone like put it that.

like succinctly, of just like, what's the point? Like, why am I writing this? So I'm like, I like to jump in between projects, like be like complete like palette cleansers. So like my first one is like a very much like a suspenseful fantasy romance. And then the second book that I'm writing has, it's a contemporary second chance romance. And

like very different. But then like the third one is like going back to that first world that like I made. I think my like what's the point is showcasing women in like a seat of power and watching how they can change the world around them to fit themselves better. And now I'm just like,

I know I have like life and shit to do now, but I just want to go write

Susan Poole (25:06)
Well, none of us wrote today, so you can go.

Jenna G Judith (25:07)
wrap.

Yes, yes, take a drink if you if you're gonna write.

Cait (25:12)
I think

that's the thing too, to like reiterate for people who are like mid-project. I felt like when I was writing my first manuscript and I was truly in the middle of it, I don't know about you guys, but I could not picture myself ever writing another book again. I was so like, I am gonna be a one and done.

Jenna G Judith (25:34)
Really?

Cait (25:36)
This shit is too hard. Get me out of here. And then I finished it and I hit the end and I felt like I had 20 more books of me. So if you're if you're feeling like how what how are you guys talking about your next books like this is how because I felt like that would have been me. It'll it'll happen when it's ready to happen. ⁓

Jenna G Judith (25:47)
I love that for you!

Susan Poole (25:49)
Yeah.

Cait (26:03)
But you might get to that end and you might say, oh, I need to go back. have no idea. There's other things I want to do. I'm not done. I'm not done yet. And you might be ready. Or you might not be for a while. That's OK.

Jenna G Judith (26:17)
Who do you think has a really wonderful author brand that you'd like admire?

Cait (26:22)
I I think, yeah, I mean, I'm thinking of just the Emily Henrys and Abby Jimenez,

I love those authors that have a million books out, but you go back and you look at like the first book or the first two books that they put out and they are nothing. I think Kristin Hannah is one of them. Kristin Hannah has like a very strong brand and so many books, but you look at like her first book and you're like, that is not the same.

Jenna G Judith (26:37)
Yes!

Susan Poole (26:39)
Mm-hmm.

Jenna G Judith (26:40)
Yes!

Yeah,

Like, Callie Hart, like I just finished her second book of like the Quicksilver series. Quicksilver is like one of my all time favorite fantasy books. I will reread it any single day of the week. So I finished Brimstone. I'm like, oh, I really haven't actually thought about like other Callie Hart stories. And I go and I look like they're nothing like this. This is very different. This is like very, very polar different.

Cait (27:15)
brand?

Susan Poole (27:15)
At

first I was trying to think of non-series, like the Jodi Picoult's, and the legal thrillers, you've got your John Grishams, your Baldacis, they all have a brand, right? ⁓ But not necessarily all series. I love Diana Gabaldon, but that's a series. ⁓ She's definitely got a great brand though.

Cait (27:18)
Hmm

Look at like, Aline, ⁓

I'm gonna murder her name because I just read it and I never say it out loud. Ellen Hillsbrand, ⁓

Susan Poole (27:48)
yes, like the ones all on Nantucket Yeah, that's a great brand. Yep.

Cait (27:50)
Yeah, I mean, it's

like, what a through line. But like, what if she wanted to write a mystery thriller? We'd all think that was a little weird, but we'd welcome her.

Susan Poole (28:00)
I think it's actually kind of cool when they go off-brand, right? Especially if they have a big name, because then everyone's kind of intrigued by what's coming.

Cait (28:03)
I what?

I don't want to read a rom-com by

John Grisham. Bill O'Reilly rom-com.

Susan Poole (28:11)
No, but I think he wrote a Christmas

Jenna G Judith (28:12)
No.

Susan Poole (28:15)
story. He might have written a Christmas story at one point in time. I didn't read it. Yeah, which would have been off. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (28:18)
Hello?

Cait (28:21)
but it's

like die hard or something. ⁓

Jenna G Judith (28:23)
I just need to know, is Die Hard a Christmas movie, yes or no?

Cait (28:25)
Hey, we could talk about AI, we could talk about prologues on this podcast, but I do not want to get into that debate.

Jenna G Judith (28:32)
I love you so much, Cait

Cait (28:35)
I can't do it.

Jenna G Judith (28:36)
So good.

Okay, so you said that you get in your way when you're editing or when you're writing and you're, yeah. How did you, okay, which one was it? Was it that you hate editing or enjoy editing?

Susan Poole (28:52)
I enjoy editing and I think we were all in the same workshop when we talked about having a hot trash draft, right? When we were in Albuquerque. And that's what my goal is for my next one. I just want to get it all out. Like get all the words on paper. My problem is I can tinker with a sentence for an hour and a half and like all my days gone by and I wrote 20 words and I don't want to do that next time. I really would like to just have that

Jenna G Judith (29:15)
god.

Susan Poole (29:22)
that really bad rough draft and go back and edit it. My problem is I edit as I write. And I think that's an obstacle for me that I'm trying to overcome.

Jenna G Judith (29:32)
Yeah, the whole writing garbage and letting garbage be garbage is very off-brand for me.

Susan Poole (29:35)
Yes.

Cait (29:37)
Cool, have you guys seen, and if anybody uses this, put it in the comments of this episode because I'm so curious and I may ask for this for Christmas. But those little writing pads, they're just little keyboards and they don't have a screen. And you can just type, they just have a tiny little almost analog screen at the top, but you don't see your whole, all of your stuff the way you would a Word document, and you just type on them.

What are they called? Have you seen this?

Jenna G Judith (30:09)
Yes, I keep getting served ads for them. I'm like, Instagram ads, you're really working on my patience here because I don't need another freaking gadget.

Cait (30:18)
Have you seen this? So it's just so like you can almost just free write without looking at a screen.

Susan Poole (30:19)
What's the score though? No, what's the point? What's the point?

Jenna G Judith (30:25)
and not being distracted by a computer.

Cait (30:27)
Yes, you're not

looking at the document and you're just like free writing on a keyboard. And I'm just, yeah, I'm very curious to try it and just see. I'm almost like feel relief even thinking about that feeling with my hands on my keyboard right now and thinking about the feeling of just typing away without... Is anybody a handwriting? Does anybody write it out by hand first? Really?

Susan Poole (30:32)
be good for me. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (30:55)
Nope.

Cait (30:56)
You don't outline what you want. No?

Jenna G Judith (30:57)
I can't do it.

Susan Poole (31:00)
Only if I write a note, like in the middle of an, have a note by my desk or by my bed, and I'll write something out in the middle of the night so that I don't have to go down and turn my computer on. But I, you know, for the most part, I'm a computer.

Jenna G Judith (31:12)
I can't because this seems really weird. I fixate on my penmanship more than what I'm writing. you ever get a handwritten card from me, I've probably practiced writing it on a scrap piece of paper first and then I rewrite it and I have all my glyphs and my curvy things perfectly matched and my cohesive branded

I sound like a psychopath. So I'm going to stop talking now.

Cait (31:42)
I thought at least Susan would be with me on the handwriting.

Susan Poole (31:45)
Yeah, no, not a handwriting. Your handwriting? Your manuscripts? Cait, your handwriting? Wow. That's awesome. I love that. ⁓

Cait (31:46)
I didn't, I didn't realize I was on. I hand write everything first, yeah. Or at least get it going.

Jenna G Judith (31:54)
What?

Cait (31:56)
Yeah, and I saw this interview, did you guys see the interview

with Emma Thompson? I think it was the Tonight Show where she was talking about AI and whatever, but she was saying like she writes everything by hand because she thinks there is like a true connection to like your brain and your hand and the page. And then it all made sense to me because I feel the most free when I'm like writing it by hand first.

Jenna G Judith (32:21)
I'm shocked.

Susan Poole (32:22)
I'm shocked too. I have terrible handwriting, so I can hardly ever even read my own handwriting. So that might be one reason, but yeah. I mean, you're probably more thoughtful that way, right?

Cait (32:31)
If you by hand, let us know. somebody

be on my side in this and let us know if you write by hand because I thought you

Jenna G Judith (32:39)
Right? Yeah.

or if you are a soon-to-be serial killer and fixate on how your handwriting looks.

Cait (32:45)
Thank

Jenna G Judith (32:47)
I don't

Cait (32:49)
we just did an episode that, by the time this episode comes out, it'll be, it aired last week, ⁓ on writing hacks, and we just talked about how hacks in writing aren't there to save time. They're there to just help you get better at writing. ⁓ So I guess this is one of those. It certainly doesn't save time, but it helps me feel like I did a better job than I just freeze up in front of a computer.

Jenna G Judith (33:14)
this is literally going to be something that's stuck in my brain all day long now.

I think it's time for Susan to plug her book.

Susan Poole (33:21)
⁓ I could plug my book, so...

Cait (33:22)
We'll plug

Jenna G Judith (33:23)
Please

Cait (33:23)
it

Susan Poole (33:24)
out of the crash still. So it's obviously women's fiction. It's dual point of view. It's about the aftermath of a bicycle crash. But what I like to say is as the book moves forward, it's a lot less about the bicycle crash. And it's more about, I like to say it's a metaphor for life. So it's about what happens when...

something no matter what it is, a death, a divorce, an accident, a job loss, whatever it is, something comes out of nowhere and like upsets the apple cart. What happens and what do you do with that? And so what relationships are you forced to look at and say, my gosh, I've been neglecting this for so long. What do I need to fix? ⁓ Do I have a second chance at something? the title of this book I think is perfect because it's what do you do after the crash or out of the crash? What are those things?

that you can change afterwards that maybe you didn't even realize needed to be changed in the beginning. ⁓ yeah. So it's available everywhere, I think. It's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, Walmart. ⁓ Reviews are super important. I like to tell people that. I didn't know that before. But now that I have a book out there, I find myself in this position where I have to reread and review every author I know. So my TBR list is really, really big right now.

But I get it now, like it's really important to like support other authors just like you guys are doing by having me on here. So thank you for that. So that's my plug.

Jenna G Judith (34:53)
Yay!

Cait (34:54)
We need to have you back

on to do an episode on reviews and arcs and all of

Susan Poole (35:00)
I would love it. I have to tell you, I'm actually usually terrified by these situations. Like, I don't like my voice. I don't like to like speak in public. It's a necessary evil for a lot of things I do in life, but you guys made it so easy. And I knew you would when you asked me because I met you two and I kind of knew it would be very casual and fun. And so I thank you for making it casual and fun. It's great. And I love to listen.

Cait (35:23)
Good.

Jenna G Judith (35:24)
Yum!

Cait (35:25)
We're so happy that you're here. We won't take up any more of your time. We know you have exciting plans.

Susan Poole (35:30)
think you guys are doing a great job with it. The graphics, the music, I really am having fun. I'm in my car laughing when I listen to it because you guys are so cute. It's really, really good. So I hope it's getting traction. I hope it gets the traction it deserves.

Cait (35:41)
It is, is,

honestly it is, so it's a good time to come on, it's doing really well, so we're pumped. But anyway, we'll let you go. Happy Holidays

Susan Poole (35:45)
That's great.

good luck to you and ⁓ happy holidays.

Jenna G Judith (35:51)
Happy Holidays,

chatting with Susan is always such a delight. Like when I met her in New Mexico, I just wanted to just hang out with her all day long and I'm glad we got to do that today.

Cait (36:05)
That's really nice

because I just wanted her to be my mom.

Jenna G Judith (36:08)
Yeah, that too. I wasn't going to go there, but I'm glad you did.

Cait (36:11)
We were so excited to be bringing guests onto the show now and so check back with us next week because we're gonna have author Lindsey Goldstein and her book comes out the beginning of next year so we're really excited to chat with her about that.

Jenna G Judith (36:22)
And if you want to be featured on Margs and Manuscripts, i.e. you want to just have a margarita and talk book stuff with us, there is a form in our link in the bio on Instagram and on YouTube. Fill it out, we'll reach out to you, and we're just looking for more best friends.

Cait (36:38)
Yeah, so

come join us. Cheers!

Jenna G Judith (36:41)
Cheers! We did it! Merry Christmas! That was like a really creepy thing of like Santa coming in hot.

Cait (36:48)
Thanks for coming

back to me.

Merry Margarita Christmas.

Jenna G Judith (36:52)
Also,

I realized this entire time that there has been a price tag at the bottom of