The Indie Author's Playbook with Debut Author Jourdana Webber (pt. 2)

In Part 2 of our conversation with author Jourdana Webber, we go deeper into the reality of building an author career from the ground up—no gatekeeping, no shortcuts, just figuring it out as you go.

We talk about what it actually looks like to put yourself out there (spoiler: it’s uncomfortable), how Jourdana landed her book in Times Square, and why asking the right questions can change everything. From cold emails to audiobook production to navigating reviews, this episode is a candid look at the trial-and-error behind indie publishing.

We also get into the emotional side of it all—the identity shifts, the fear of putting your work out into the world, and the reality that not everyone is going to love what you create. Jourdana shares what helped her push through that fear, why she stopped reading reviews, and how she reframed what it means to be “selfish” as a creative.

If you’ve ever felt stuck, unsure, or like you’re just making it up as you go—this one’s for you.

✨ What We Cover

•  Jourdana’s Times Square billboard moment (and how she made it happen) 
•  Why “just asking the question” is the real unlock 
•  The power of community over gatekeeping in publishing 
•  Trial-and-error marketing (and what didn’t work) 
•  How indie authors can access opportunities like Publishers Weekly
•  Behind the scenes of audiobook production 
•  The emotional reality of publishing your work 
•  Why you should probably stop reading your reviews 👀 
•  Reframing “selfish” as choosing yourself 
•  Letting go of other people’s opinions 

🔗 Links + Resources

•  Grab your copy of Unconventionally Elle (Times Square Special Edition):
  👉 https://jourdanawebber.com/products/times-square-special-edition-sprayed-edges-unconventionally-elle 
   
•  Shop Margs & Manuscripts merch:
   👉 https://margs-manuscripts-shop.fourthwall.com
  
  

Transcript

Jenna G Judith (00:01)
Hello friends and welcome to part two of our interview with Jordana Weber. I kid you not, we had at least an hour and a half of stuff to go through with her. So quick little housekeeping things though. One is,

Okay. But before we dive into the episode, I'm do something a little bit different. I am going to have a quick... Before we dive into the episode, just a couple of fun announcements for all of you. The first is you can get your hands on Jordana... You can get your hands on a Times Square special edition of Unconventionally L. ⁓

you can get the... ⁓

You can get the Times Square special edition of Unconventionally L by Jordana Weber on her website. ⁓ The link will be in the show notes for you. So go get your hands on that. And second is we finally released our merch site. we're so excited. So follow the link in our bio and Instagram or the link in the show notes and go get some swag.

And I'm not even kidding you, I'm having far too much fun designing swag. So check back daily. ⁓ I launched it today and I already added three things post-launch because that's how I roll. ⁓ But anyways, I hope you enjoy the second part of our interview with the lovely, amazing Jordana Weber. And cheers, everyone.

Jourdana Webber (01:16)
So Elle was chosen to be in Times Square. And so, hey, I know, like can you friggin' believe it? And so I, it's this Friday, Friday the 13th, and I am flying up to New York, and then Cait is taking this out of the group chat, and she's gonna come meet me in New York, and we're gonna like celebrate in Times Square. I actually like, I'm.

Jenna G Judith (01:39)
Yes!

Jourdana Webber (01:45)
Cause it's such like a big deal. It's like my debut and all that stuff. I actually, my But because of this whole thing that happened, I actually on that day, so when this releases on the 17th, we'll open up a live link for a special edition to my book.

Cait (02:04)
We got a scoop.

Jourdana Webber (02:04)
And so

we got the scoop. is here live, well, pre-live. Yeah. And so it's the Times Square special edition for Unconventionally Elle and it's gonna have the sprayed edges and there's an extremely limited, extremely limited run. ⁓ Yeah. when this air shall be available and it's first come first serve.

Jenna G Judith (02:11)
What is time?

dibs.

Cait (02:26)
I know,

it's so cute, it's literally so cute.

Jourdana Webber (02:34)
I'll send you the links so that you could link it in however you link it in podcasts. So they can go, yeah.

Cait (02:35)
night.

Jenna G Judith (02:35)
Yes!

Cait (02:38)
Yeah, absolutely. We'll

Jenna G Judith (02:39)
Yes.

Cait (02:40)
link it

Jenna G Judith (02:40)
In the show notes, there it goes.

Cait (02:40)
on the post. Show notes, post, all of it. ⁓ Well, cheers, man. That's amazing. We're on International Women's Day. Can you believe it?

Jourdana Webber (02:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, because it'll be my website.

Jenna G Judith (02:49)
Cheers, we're so proud of you.

Jourdana Webber (02:50)
Cheers.

On inter-

Indie authors can do it too.

Cait (02:56)
she was chosen, what was the problem? Like, how do you what? Thank you.

Jourdana Webber (03:02)
Well, my friend is in.

Jenna G Judith (03:03)
Who did you ask and say yes to? ⁓

Jourdana Webber (03:06)
Exactly. My friend is in

PR. So we found honestly like this company that does Times Square billboards and the difference is there's like personal ones you could do where you like send pictures or whatnot. But then there's like the business side where you like you submit and you ask and you see and then you look at dates that are available. So per usual, I just emailed them. Like what's

I was like, what can I do here? And so then ⁓ it got like the okay. And the state was available the 13th and I worked with, so one of my dear friends, it's all about like really surrounding yourself with a good team. I have a friend who is a graphic designer. She did my logo. She did my publishing logo. She did the billboard. And so it's a huge, cause like, how do you say it? Well, that's the thing. It's like,

Cait (04:01)
So that's cool. Wow, that's amazing for her.

Jenna G Judith (04:01)
Choo choo for her!

Jourdana Webber (04:04)
How do you say it? I love to bring other artists, other authors, like come with me. Let's do this big thing together. Get your name out there too. It's not just me, it was never just me. And so she just graduated with her degree last year and I was like, hey, I need you for Times Square. And she goes, holy shit, like okay. And so.

Yeah, and she's also like, now she could literally say, I've graphic designed or however you say it for someone's book. And it's literally like this logo on a book that's in the Library of Congress. know, like it's just, like I said, perception. It's really cool when you say it, when it wasn't that hard to do. It was just, you had to have the ability to ask the questions. And so Elle's gonna be in Times Square and I'm so fucking excited.

Jenna G Judith (04:55)
Okay. Okay. Not to like beat a dead horse, but also yes. When you said you just have to know what questions to ask. That right there is the whole crux of it. If you don't know the question to ask, ask someone. And once you learn the question, go ask it. Go do the thing. Like you just have to like... Oh my gosh.

Jourdana Webber (05:07)
Hello.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah You have to put yourself

out there and it's so hard it really is I'm like an Extroverted introvert introvert like I recharge by myself do not bother me, but I could talk to a wall

Jenna G Judith (05:25)
my gosh, it's terrifying.

100%. No.

Jourdana Webber (05:36)
no, it's just all about asking questions and and You'll figure it out too because they'll come back to you like the like I didn't know anything about producing an audiobook and Stella was like, okay Well, here's three companies to reach out to that. I work with I was like, all right, let's go down the list

Jenna G Judith (05:51)
Yes!

I want to know like the the monetary value of your Google Drive.

Cait (05:57)
Literally and now

now since We've been in like in contact like I've asked you so many questions are like right now I'm like As soon as I have a question I'm reaching out to either you or like another Indie author too that we've had on this podcast because now you guys are our resources and We are connected to you and we are all like trying to bring each other

Jourdana Webber (06:08)
yeah, ask me anything, like always.

Mm-hmm.

Cait (06:26)
up in this crazy, we're all just trying to make art and capitalism and we need each other to like succeed in that.

Jourdana Webber (06:31)
Yeah.

I've asked like, there's been authors

Jenna G Judith (06:35)
I

need that on a t-shirt.

Jourdana Webber (06:37)
that,

reached out to some authors and asked questions. Tara, she was, I don't think she monitors DMs anymore, but at that time she was willing to give information. Then I've had some that are really weird about it. And I'm like, but really? ⁓ And so it's kind of like they say, and I can't say exactly because I'm not a parent, but if you are a parent,

you become the parent you needed or wanted and so then you treat your kids like differently, it's what I've heard. And it's like, if I get to a certain point or if I am, I want people to come to me and ask how I did something or where did I go or how did I do it because that's how people, I am a firm believer that their art needs to be shared and that your story needs to be out in this world and it will affect, even if it affects one person.

Like think that's it. Like that's a huge deal. And like I'm literally getting emotional. Like it's such a big deal for me that people are able to share their art and gatekeeping pisses me off more than like as Sarah J. Maas fucking pisses me off. Like don't, just text, just email me. I'll let you know.

Cait (07:53)
the expanse of the people you meet and connect with who are willing to share those things with you, and you're like, I never thought I would be having a conversation with the editor of Eat, Love. I never thought I would be talking to this author about her experiences meeting Anthony Bourdain. Things that I'm like, how?

Am I talking to this? I'm going to Times Square with you to see your billboard and I'm like, this would have never happened if we didn't connect over just putting, you you put yourself out there and like emailed us.

Jourdana Webber (08:19)
Hahaha.

I randomly emailed you guys. I saw

you saying like, we're getting through our emails. I was like, ⁓ I want to be on their podcast. ⁓

Cait (08:35)
And we get so many submissions and it's really hard to like connect with every single person But when yours came up I I just like knew who you were automatically because I knew your name in your book cover to be honest and Like when I looked you up. I was like, yeah, I was like, my gosh I follow her and like I've already known for a while I was this girl would be weed vibe really well. And so when I saw your name come up I was like absolutely

Jourdana Webber (08:39)
Yeah.

Thank you, algorithm.

Ha

Cait (09:01)
so yeah, the power of using resources or finding resources is, and it is very difficult. It's very much easier said than done, but.

Jourdana Webber (09:09)
And it's

also learning like what doesn't work. Like I did something on Ingram and it was like some little package or whatever. And it was X amount of money. And they're like, it's gonna do this, this and this. And we have proven record, did shit. Like it was like, I won't do it again, but you don't know until you try. And so that's been a lot of like Elle has been trial and error of what reviews do I want? Like how do I get a starred review? That's like my next big thing. Like how do I get a starred review? How do I?

Cait (09:17)
Okay.

Mm.

Jenna G Judith (09:28)
Yeah!

Jourdana Webber (09:39)
get like so because one of the big things is book life and book life is like the Indie arm of Publishers Weekly and I learned about this through Ingram like they just had something for like a review or whatnot and If you're an editor's pick which Elle became one. ⁓ It's like a Publishers Weekly editor Reviews your book, but technically it's not published. It's all semantics ⁓ Elle was in the December edition of Publishers Weekly

Like I have it and I'm gonna frame it and like all that shit. So it's just, yeah. I don't even remember what I was saying, but essentially knowing what to go for.

Cait (10:16)
No, it's true.

Jourdana Webber (10:17)
Because I see other authors, like traditional authors, like Publishers Weekly said this, Library Journal said this. I'm like, so how do I do this? And I just started researching. Some of it is just specific to traditional. ⁓ They don't accept indie authors. But for the most part, you can submit to like everybody. And that's just, yeah. Cold emails. Hi.

Cait (10:40)
That's super cool. ⁓ What else did I, can you talk about the audiobook for the next book or are you not talking about the audiobook for the next book?

Jourdana Webber (10:51)
I can't tell you who the narrators are. mean, as much as I want to, because I can't keep a secret to save my life. I may or may not have like Easter eggs or what. I'm not famous enough like Taylor Swift to be like, you're automatically like, okay, what's going on in her bookshelf? But maybe in 10 years, people will come back to this and be like, ⁓ I see it now. ⁓ Okay, yes, I am so excited. I haven't even told you this, Cait.

Cait (10:53)
Okay. No, I didn't know if that was.

Jenna G Judith (10:57)
Yeah

Cait (11:03)
You

Jenna G Judith (11:07)
Right.

Cait (11:11)
Hahaha

Jourdana Webber (11:19)
I was talking to my producer and everything is set to go. I'm going to have my completed manuscript to her by September 1st and I'll have my files back by the end of October. But I am going to go into New Orleans to a recording studio and it'll be my voice doing the author's note, the dedication and the acknowledgments. so, and literally I saw that Abby Jimenez does it and Catherine Center and I was like,

Cait (11:40)
⁓ that's amazing.

Jenna G Judith (11:42)
Have fun!

Jourdana Webber (11:49)
How did they do that? And so I just, actually I Instagram DM'd her because we're close. I was like, how do I do this? Like, is this possible? And she goes, oh yeah, we just rent a studio and you go read it. And da da da. I was like, it's that simple. She goes, yeah, you just go read it. I said, done, done.

Jenna G Judith (12:07)
You're gonna be, not only are you eternalized in print, you'll be eternalized in audio.

Jourdana Webber (12:12)
Yeah. Yes.

Cait (12:14)
I don't think

Jourdana Webber (12:14)
Just in time for the robots to steal my voice. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (12:17)
Whatever.

Cait (12:20)
I could I would be like sobbing like I like thinking about reading my acknowledgements out loud like yeah

Jourdana Webber (12:27)
I need to get through it. Like, thank God I didn't

have to read Elle's ⁓ because so like I said, my grandfather, I was his caregiver and he had cancer and like some other things going on. And about two weeks before he passed away, we listened to the, cause when you get the audio book files, you're supposed to like read them and listen to make sure it matches like your manuscript and like everything. Like you basically have to do a proofread. And as I was doing that,

grandpa was listening with me. So he actually got to read my book by listening to the audio book. And it was just like the most magical moment. And so in my acknowledgements, know, my grandparents raised me. So that's very similar to Elle. Like you were asking how much of it's autobiographical audio. Yeah. And so, yeah, I don't know that I would have been able to read those acknowledgements because it was, it was really emotional with Elle and her whole journey.

Jenna G Judith (13:26)
Stop it.

Cait (13:26)
No,

I know that's like,

Jourdana Webber (13:28)
CSW is like a trip I took with

my husband to Norway and Denmark and Sweden. I'm like, I'm gonna make a love story out of this. So it's a fun, very vacay rom-com vibe.

Cait (13:36)
Yes.

Well, think that's per, like honestly, the first one should be for you. The first one should be, this is mine, I did this for me, and you'll get, you'll get one. Husband, children, you'll get one, one day. But this one is mine. Like this one's personal to me and like.

Jourdana Webber (13:52)
Yeah.

I

said that my book, actually I can read it, it's right here. My dedication.

Jenna G Judith (14:04)
you

That's right, I did it.

Jourdana Webber (14:06)
Right, I have it.

I don't need a paraphrase my dedication was for the dreamers and those trying to find their place in this world because I Struggled so much with I did all the right things I went to college. I got the degrees. I got the job I had the money and I was so miserable Like where did I go wrong? And so then I leave corporate and I have like an identity crisis Like who am I because you know, I actually I don't know if you guys read nonfiction. I don't typically

but I read Untamed by Glennon Doyle. And in there, she talks about how women, if you're like, hey, I'm so and so, if they go to describe themselves, it's their job. I'm a mom or I'm a copy editor or I'm a this, I'm a that. It's never, it's like your job title is who you associate your worth with. And I really struggled through that after leaving corporate, because I was like, who am I?

⁓ And so I really wanted the dreamers and the people who aren't conventional in society to feel like this was for them.

Jenna G Judith (15:12)
because it was for you.

Cait (15:16)
I

Jenna G Judith (15:17)
Sorry!

Cait (15:20)
And that's what I wrote, I think when I left my review. But that's what I wrote in my review was like, this just screams to the modern woman. Because I think that there is this time in life that you do so well conveying, is this time that you're like in your late 20s and you've done the job for a few years now, you're not in college, and you're just like,

Jourdana Webber (15:25)
Thank you.

Cait (15:48)
Okay, by this time, generations before me have already had kids and a family, and now that's their life. But now I'm either like, Elle like I'm choosing not to have kids, or I'm not having kids yet, or I'm not married yet. So like, what the fuck do I do now? Nope, there's no precedent for this time anymore. There's no precedent. Like my mom had kids by the time she was that age. So like, yeah, you get to like 27, 28, 29, and you're just like,

Jourdana Webber (16:09)
Mm-hmm.

Jenna G Judith (16:09)
No,

no.

Jourdana Webber (16:17)
Yeah.

Cait (16:17)
What

am I supposed to be doing? And it feels unconventional, but I think we're the first, millennials are like the first people to try to know. Yeah. So I think that your book does a great job just talking about that time of life and like, what do you, where do you go and what decisions do you make? And you get to be selfish and you get to like figure out what you want to do or you don't or yeah, it's a crazy time.

Jourdana Webber (16:23)
I think we're paving the way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, It's

funny you say selfish because my therapist did an exercise with me 2017, 2018. was right before I started writing L. And it was like, I made like a abstract puzzle, right? And she said on each puzzle piece, I want you to write a word that describes who you are. And it was, you know, I don't even know what I wrote, but I know one of them was selfish or cold or whatever. And she goes, okay.

Now I want you to take a marker and I want you to color in the ones that someone told you that you now believe about yourself. So selfish, cold, failure, whatever. And I did that I think two years ago, again, right before Elle came out, but it was completely different. And I didn't think of myself as selfish anymore. What I was thinking of myself as selfish was because I didn't want to have children.

I would do things that made me happy instead of, and not that I wasn't thinking about other people, but you have to put yourself first sometimes. And automatically people say that's so selfish. Like look at, I don't know if you guys are fans of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives, but yeah, okay. Well, Whitney's on Broadway, and of course.

Jenna G Judith (18:00)
Yes!

Jourdana Webber (18:04)
And she's dealing with people like, you're such a terrible mom. Like you're so selfish. You're doing this. And it's like, you don't know the fucking story. Like you don't even know them. You don't even know them. Like how dare someone. And like, again, I'm not a mother, but I have friends and family who are. And the guilt that they feel for being selfish, AKA just taking care of themselves so they could still like keep their sanity is unbelievable. And so it's just, is that, are you really selfish or is that just what society tells you you are? Because

you're not putting yourself first.

Jenna G Judith (18:36)
It's like you finally, after so many years, you finally decided that who you are is who you say you are. And it's not allowing others to dictate it anymore. Like sure, like everyone's still allowed to say it. Like, we still talk shit about anyone, but like, but we mostly out of love. ⁓ But we...

Jourdana Webber (18:45)
Mm-hmm.

You, yeah.

Yeah, you take. Yeah.

You have your own agency and like another, gosh, I'm like throwing out quotes here from nonfiction. I don't remember the last time I read nonfiction, but it was.

Jenna G Judith (19:03)
Yes! Yes.

Mine was Queen Victoria's Sir, or no, not her memoir, her biography, because that's just... ⁓ If you're not royal, I don't care.

Cait (19:13)
you

Jourdana Webber (19:13)
nice.

Okay. Hey, I would read that. Yeah.

Cait (19:23)
Speaking of a selfish bitch. ⁓

Jourdana Webber (19:23)
I mean, I was sat when it came to watching the crown. So I mean, I was like, But yeah, no, the other thing was someone else's opinion of you is none of your business. And that's from Rachel Hollis and I think from her therapist. But it's like, so indirectly a therapist told me.

Jenna G Judith (19:29)
Yes.

That's real good though.

Jourdana Webber (19:42)
Someone else's opinion of you is none of your business. You don't give it like that is something I've really come into I don't give a shit I mean sometimes right like you're human, but I don't give a shit with someone thinks like yeah I published this book I did this book and Like book two is really spicy and I like I know some people who are gonna read it and be like whoa This isn't like L. No not at all

Cait (19:42)
That was a one, actually.

it.

Jenna G Judith (20:04)
I

really hope your therapist gets a shout out. ⁓

Jourdana Webber (20:08)
She, ⁓ so

Cait (20:08)
Yeah.

Jourdana Webber (20:09)
listen, listen, she's in my acknowledgements for like a whole paragraph and she knows it and she knows because she helped me write all of the mental health scenes where like Elle goes to therapy. Like I sent all of those chapters to my therapist and she was like, da, da, da, da, da, da. And so she would help me write it as if it was a real therapist. Not that there is any medical, like do not go to it, know, disclaimer.

Jenna G Judith (20:12)
Yes!

No, no, no.

Jourdana Webber (20:35)
But yeah, like she helped me write that part so that it would be accurate in case someone was suffering with that stuff and they needed to like know whatever it was that was in there, you know, with the imposter and all that.

Cait (20:45)
Yeah,

that makes sense because she is a big part of the book or like those things are, you know, I know.

Jourdana Webber (20:48)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jenna G Judith (20:51)
That's a good therapist right there.

Jourdana Webber (20:54)
Everybody

Jenna G Judith (20:54)
That's

Jourdana Webber (20:55)
should have one.

Jenna G Judith (20:55)
a very good...

Cait (20:56)
Can I ask you this? But I'm finding and I was talking about this with my husband last night. But since I announced the date of my book and not like it that it's it's real now and it's happening that I have a lot of anxiety.

about opinions, a lot. And it's something I never thought I would have. I've been working on this book for so, like a decade. like, no. And I'm just like, and I'm like, I'm putting myself out there on a podcast, and I'm like on social media more, and I'm talking to the camera, and I'm doing things that I've never done before. And I should feel more confident about putting my work out there. But is that something that you experienced?

Jenna G Judith (21:19)
And that's like not you in general.

Cait (21:39)
As well, like right before, were you like, wait a minute, what am I doing? Like, hold on.

Jourdana Webber (21:44)
I'm gonna throw another quote. I'm gonna throw out another quote. I swear like I have mantras

all over ⁓ my screen. Yeah, ⁓ I had a friend tell me one time, if something is scaring you, then you're leveling up and you're doing the right thing. And you just do things scared. And another Glennon Doyle is like, can do hard things. And so there's times where I would be like, I don't know.

Cait (21:50)
We need some sound bites.

Jourdana Webber (22:11)
the fuck I'm doing, but I could do hard things. Like, it's fine, it's fine, or, you know, whatever. I thought I would be okay with like reviews and stuff like that. And it's so cliche to say, like what I'm about to do. People were like, don't read your reviews. I'm like, I can handle it, it's fine. No, people are ruthless. They are mean. They act like they know what an Oxford comma is.

Like, I love the readers. The readers are the reason that like, you know, obviously we sell books, you know? ⁓ I love them and I love the bookish community, but some people like literally go out of their way to be like, ⁓ I hated this person. I'll be like, but okay. And then I just realized like, you know, stop reading reviews. Really don't do it. Read a few, get your feet wet to be like, shit, no, they were right. ⁓

Jenna G Judith (22:46)
Right.

Jourdana Webber (23:08)
because it's not gonna resonate with everybody and I really had to realize that. Like I still, I don't look at reviews because it hurt my feelings. Cause I am so close to my book and I know as an artist what it's like to put your fucking heart in that, to go through the edits, to go through the fear of even, I doing this right? Like there are so many emotions you feel as an author and so many things you have to deal with and sometimes alone that like.

readers don't understand because they're not actually, especially as an indie author, I'm so passionate about this. Like they're not the ones publishing the book. And so they're just like, like when people are like, Abby Jimenez has XYZ narrator who's XYZ canceled problematic. Abby didn't choose, Abby didn't choose that guy. So lay off. Like that was definitely the publisher and like their line of

You know, and so people go after authors all the time and sometimes with like decisions they didn't even have. And so again, they don't understand the story sometimes or they don't understand what went into it. Like I always give five stars to books that I read unless I absolutely hated it. And then I just say like, I didn't read this book at all because I know how it feels to be an author, like just literally doing the damn thing. And I feel like I'm just talking and talking and talking, but it, yeah.

Cait (24:29)
No, go ahead.

Jenna G Judith (24:29)
You're

good.

Jourdana Webber (24:31)
Like it just, I learned to not care. If they're not someone I hired for their opinion, then I don't give a shit.

I hire my editors and my editors tell me what I need to change and what I need to do. ⁓ I mean, unless it's like, unless, yeah.

Cait (24:45)
Yeah. And it feels better coming from them. Like when they say it,

Jenna G Judith (24:47)
There you- ⁓

Cait (24:51)
when my editor had a note on one of my lines that just said, are you serious?

Jenna G Judith (24:59)
you

Cait (25:00)
And I was like, no, I am not. I am deleting that right now. You are absolutely right.

Jourdana Webber (25:04)
On book