She Turned a Situationship Into a Bestselling Book with Author Alissa DeRogatis

What happens when a five-year situationship finally ends and leaves you wondering what comes next?

For author Alissa DeRogatis, the answer was writing the book she couldn't find on the shelf.

In this episode, we chat with Alissa about turning heartbreak into storytelling, self-publishing Call It What You Want, selling tens of thousands of copies, signing with Sourcebooks, and building a career by showing up authentically online. We also dive into the realities of book marketing, why comparison is one of the biggest traps for writers, and how her writing community, Hot Girls Who Write, grew from a simple desire to help other authors feel less alone.

Plus, we get a behind-the-scenes look at her upcoming novel, How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle, and the real-life experiences that inspired it.

In This Episode

•  How a situationship inspired Call It What You Want
•  Self-publishing without an editor—and why she has no regrets 
•  Selling 50,000+ copies before signing with a traditional publisher 
•  The journey from indie author to Sourcebooks author 
•  Why comparison culture can derail writers 
•  Using vulnerability as a marketing superpower 
•  What actually worked on TikTok (and what didn't) 
•  The realities of building an author brand online 
•  Why authenticity is a major theme in How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle
•  The story behind Hot Girls Who Write 
•  Creating community in an industry that can feel isolating 
•  Book covers, branding, and trusting your creative instincts

About Alissa DeRogatis

Alissa DeRogatis is the author of Call It What You Want and the upcoming How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle. After self-publishing her debut novel and building a passionate online readership, she signed with Sourcebooks and has become known for her honest, relatable storytelling about modern relationships, heartbreak, and personal growth.

She is also the founder of Hot Girls Who Write, a writing community dedicated to helping authors connect, learn, and support one another through every stage of the writing journey.

Books & Resources Mentioned

• Call It What You Want — Alissa DeRogatis 
• How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle — Alissa DeRogatis

Connect with Alissa

Instagram: @alissade
TikTok: @alissade
Substack: Alissa DeRogatis
Hot Girls Who Write

Listen & Subscribe

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Margs & Manuscripts wherever you get your podcasts. Leaving a rating or review helps more readers, writers, and publishing-curious creatives discover the show.

And if you've ever turned a heartbreak into a creative project, we'd love to hear about it. Tag us on Instagram and join the conversation. 🍸📚

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Since starting our podcast in November, we I feel like we're just collecting people of like either guests or listeners or just besties of the pod. And I am very thankful that we finally get to add another one to the group, Alyssa De Rogatis. Uh, we've been orbiting her for so long, Kate. And we finally got to talk to her. I'm gonna talk to her. I'm so excited. You you understand that we don't do like the traditional like author interviews by any means. Like if you see us having like a questionnaire um of things we need to talk to an author about, like clearly we've hit her, like fall we've fallen down and smacked our little heads too hard.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

We are so excited to have her um on today. She does Hot Girls Who Write. She has a book called Call It What You Want out that like basically went viral for how relatable it is and how much people like could identify with her story. So I was desperate to talk to her about that experience. And then um she has another book coming out. Can you believe it? And August, August 4th, um, How to Find Love in a Serial Isle. You've seen her around, you've seen the the book cover, you know exactly who I'm talking about. She's awesome, and we're excited for her to join us today. Welcome to the podcast, Alyssa. We're so pumped that you're here. I feel like we've been connected to you through best friends and people, and we were like, we have to talk to Alyssa finally. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

You were signing on, I was literally just looking at which date exactly Serial Isle comes out. August 4th. Oh, the fourth. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

It's gonna be like the perfect like segue into like the fall season. It's like a cozy re that you just like don't want to put down. So I think it's gonna be a perfect timing.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

What does it look like in this part of it for you? Like the lead up, yeah. Kind of this not a lot of months away, but like this far away. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

We're kind of behind. Like we should have already announced book tour and stuff. Um, it looks good, but I'm also like about to sell my third book. Like my option expires like this week. And I'm like, of course it's gonna happen like when my third it everything always happens all at once. And then I there's nothing for so long, all of it's quiet, like in trad, like, and then all of a sudden you're getting six emails in one week, and I'm like, I can't, my head's not can't be straight. I'm like, what is going on? So it's busy, but then also not like it really just depends.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

It's like feast or famine, kind of.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah.

unknown 2:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

I purposely did not ask a lot of questions when I've been talking to Alyssa, but like, what's the story? You have I know you have a really cool story about the first book and how that came to be and how you got published and like where you are now.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

I was in a situation ship and we had a breakup, uh, you know, one of those. We like dated for a year in college, fell into like on again, off again thing after postgrad, then COVID. I feel like dragged it out even longer. And then all of a sudden it was five years, and I was like, what am I doing? Like I, you know, and we just both I think like had feelings for each other, but I think we knew we weren't gonna work out long term and finally just were like, this has to be over. And then I was reading a lot of romance because all my friends were in relationships. I was bored it was summer, and I was like, why does every book end with people together? Like that doesn't happen all the time. Like I knew I was gonna be single for a hot minute because I'm not really a relationship person. And um, then I realized the reason that romance books have a happily ever after is because it's actually a requirement of the genre. So I was like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Like I could have read, like, you know, some Sally Rooney or something. And then I was like, screw it. I'm gonna write my own book, posted about it on TikTok like once, and then from there, people were like, When does this come out? I was like, I have like 30 pages, so this is gonna take me a hot minute. And I just sat down and wrote every single day after work. I was working in an office five days a week. Um, lived alone, came home. It was like my passion project, and it happened within like four months. I had a first draft, and then I self-published it. I did not even have an editor. Like, guys, it was like real, like if you go to my Goodreads, like you can tell, like it's pretty pretty rough. Like, but you know what? I have zero regrets because it brought me like then it I got my agent by the end of that summer. Like, I yeah, I released it. Like I'd used grammarly, like you know, like autocorrect. Like it was like, I was like, oh, comma there, comma here. Published that in June of 2023. I was like, I want to sell a hundred copies my first week. I had a thousand. The next week, like a few weeks, I was at 10,000. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Snap. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

I know it was yeah. And then I um signed with my agent in July. We went on sub in August, and then by the end of August, I had signed with my editor at Source Books, but we didn't take that book offline until January. So I was still able to make money from Amazon. And then we announced the book deal in January after we had uh done some edits and and things, and then the book came back out like June 2024. And now here we are. I signed a two book deal, so that's where serial aisle like came into play.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

So my question because the branding of them both, they just look so good together, and they're they're just so pretty. Yeah, they're so cute. I love a pretty book. I know they're all so pretty.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

My friend Haley actually created this cover. Um, I worked with her at the job that I was at, and then this one we did in-house with the design team at Source Books. But yeah, they're so cute. I love the colors too.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, they're adorable. And I'm like, so when I think of like self-publishing and stuff, I'm like, how did you did you keep the same cover? Or do they like how does that work when you self-publish and then you they buy the book that's you've published?

SPEAKER_02 5:59

How does that even um good question? I don't the I mean, for cover, Sourcebooks likes to do a lot of data-driven things. So like they'll go out with like two or three title options and see if they test well with these focus groups, same with covers. Um, so they just tested my cover, and I mean, by the time we had taken it offline, I had sold like 50,000 copies on my own. So like we knew the cover was working. So there was no question about it. Then I'm kind of picky though, because I work in marketing. Like, I my job was social media marketing before like writing full time. Um, so we saw a lot of covers for Serial Isle, but I they just bought the art from my friend Haley, who then she has her name on like the back cover here.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

That is super cool. Yeah, I just feel like we never talk about that because we we talked to a lot of either indie authors, a lot of trad published authors, people who do a mix of both, but I've never gotten to talk to somebody who's like, I had an indie book, and then that book was bought by a publisher and basically republished, it seems like.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, we did do some tweaking, like the story essentially is the same. Um, there's just like longer scenes, like we tried to do a little bit more depth. Like now I've taken some workshops, I've taken writing classes, I um have really tried to, you know, when you get that many bad reviews about how your writing sucks or it seems like a diary or like all those things. First of all, I'm on in the camp of like, I don't want to change my voice because it's who I am. Like all three of us could sit down with the same book concept and we could write different books, right? Um absolutely. And I think the the reason it did so well was because people saw themselves in the book and maybe that was the writing style, maybe it was a story, who knows? Um, but with Serial Isle, I really wanted to challenge myself to write a little bit more commercial, like and make sure that I was like at least, you know, hitting on character development and like really like um sitting in scenes longer instead of just jump, jump, jumping. And again, it's also not perfect. Like I'm I didn't go to school for this. I don't have an MFA. It's just like I just like to write stories. So um I think in I don't know where I was going with that.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Like, hey, I thought that was it's super cool, but like I think your story just shows like fuck it, whatever. Like I sold 50,000 copies at like well, more than that, but that's like that's such a good way to just I don't know, it's that's it, that's a good thing to put out there and just say that like if you like to write and you know, stop putting other authors on a pedestal and just do your thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Well, and the comparison culture is the whole the worst part. Like, I don't want to open a book and see like and be like, oh, they're writing so much different than mine. Like, how do I make my writing like that? Because you're losing your originality then.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Oh, totally. That would act like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

That's such a good point. Like, especially when you are in like the beginning stages of your writing career, and you're comparing yourself to people that have been writing for decades, and you're like, Yeah, they have like such like a strong voice or a strong like character structure or whatever it is, like whatever their like trademark is, they took years to develop that. Even like someone that's published like 50 books, like they are not gonna tell you that their books that they started with are the same as the books that they're doing now.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Yeah. So even like genre like shifting a little bit because Call of What You Want is more women's fiction, and then like Serial Isle is branded as like a romance, but it definitely leans a little bit more women's fiction because it's about the story of her like growth, and then it I always want to write more realistic stories. Like I'm still single. I told my that breakup happened in 2022, and I'm like, yep, not even one guy, like no talk, no good talking stages. Like, you know, there's been people, but like nothing super serious. And I'm like, I don't I want young women to know that there's like happiness and things that you can get out of life that's not just love, but there's always gonna be like a love story at the base of my books, I think. So when you do genre shift to to it, uh it I think changes your voice.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah. And there's not, and I think especially thinking about when Call It What You Want came out around that time, there was nothing about situationships, and that had to speak really to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yeah, I hate to be that girl. It's like I heard of Gracie Abrams first, or like, you know, like things like that. It's like, but that's I do feel like that with situationships because uh one, it wasn't a term when I was like in mine. Like I don't even remember the first time I came across the term, but like when I was in college and postgrad, my mom would like my friends would be like, oh yeah, her friends with benefits. And I was like, no, first of all, it's way more than just that, you guys. Like, cause I, you know, I was like trying to defend it. Like to me, it was a relationship to him, like who knows what it was. But um, and that's kind of how most situationships I do feel like lean, but it was embarrassing. Like, I feel like I was like, my friends are like, Why are you so upset over this guy you never dated? I'm like, exactly, like that's why. Like, I there's so many what ifs. Like, I think it's easier to break up with the shitty partner and be like, they were a shitty boyfriend. But then for me, it was like all about the potential. Well, if we did date, would he have been better? So I think being able to be honest and vulnerable with my feelings about situationships online hopefully helped other people open up and like, you know, now it's unfortunately really common to be in a situation ship.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I love like you're just little dig of yeah, the guy just doesn't know what it is. Doesn't even know it's happening sometimes. Literally.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

And I think I think call it when you want. It does, it does a good job at like trying to see it from his perspective a bit, and like giving him some reasons of why he is the way he is, but at the end of it, she's just I mean, you know, we know they don't end up together, so that's not a spoiler, but like Yeah, no, it's not he's just like, Well, I'm not, no thanks.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Like figure you should have. Yeah, he's like, no, he's like, I know that I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I like there's so many people that will like circle this one line and they're like, fuck you. And I'm like, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah, that's exactly he's like, he's like, I know, um, because Jana, you read Syria and I read um Call It What You Want. And then when we rescheduled, I was like, oh, I can do both now. Um, but he literally is like, he's like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just gonna do it anyway. I know it's done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

I forget what the line is. Well, I know, and that's I mean, like, it's like, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? Like, I was basically giving him like an entire relationship without the strings or the responsibility. Why would he put a label on it?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, and she goes with it for a long time. She deals with it for way longer than like, I mean, who knows? I mean, I dealt with it for way longer than anybody else probably thought they would say.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Oh my god, Kate, are you just like drawing all of these like lines to your own personality?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Everyone does.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

That's when you read Alyssa's book. Because I'm like, I never experienced this. So, and I'm just like, this is really entertaining. And Kate's like, this is my friggin' life.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

And or people are so mad. Like, I think that's also what makes a good book. Like, you could like Jenna, you could read that book and be like, oh wow, now I finally see, you know, Kate's whatever like situationship from her point of view, or you could be like, you know, or you could be like, oh, this girl's a fucking idiot. Like, and it's just fun and entertaining. But like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Is anybody like a theater geek? But have you guys ever seen the last five years or like listen to the last five years? Somebody listening will have listened to the last five years, but it's like both POVs of basically this couple, and they both make so many mistakes, but like everybody walks out of that show either hating one of the characters, or they're just like, I hate this, and they and all you do is fight about who was right or who was wrong in the relationship. And like that's how I felt reading Call It What You Want. At least um, it did a really good job at that. Like, you just so many opinions.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Exactly. It's kind of like tell me lies to that TV show. Like it's like you're like hate watching it, it's like hate reading it also. And I can look at that book and be like, like, I'm so glad I wrote it when I did, because I think if I had written it now, it would be um probably a lot less controversial, but it would be a lot less like raw and real. Like, I don't remember how it felt to like feel those feelings until I pick up the book and skim through it. And I'm like, oh shit. Yeah, like that was, you know, because it's just like wanting someone to be loved and or like someone to love you that you love, and then be like, why are they not choosing me? Like it's a sound so desperate, but in the moment it was like, there must be something wrong with me. Why am I not enough? Like all of these things, and um, getting to work through those feelings in real time. My therapist actually just told me, she was like, Yeah, you process things like verbally. I'm like, yeah, that's why I write also. Like, I have to like I my Substack, I'll like write things as they happen. Like if I have a fight with one of my parents, they're getting that Substack email to them in a few weeks.

unknown 15:18

God.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

I'm not about sharing like it's like a diary entry. Like, it's just like, you know, I can recognize that my parents, this is their first time living too. Like it's always kind, but yeah, helps me work through things. So between Substack and therapy and these books, like people better watch out for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

But I that's me. I mean, that's Jenna comes up with crazy shit in her head and creates worlds. And like, I cannot do something unless I'm like emotionally motivated to do it. Yeah. And I I can I felt that a lot of that with with you, and just I recognize a lot of that in the books too. I was like, oh, she is like we're the same in that way. Um, because that's how my my book that's coming out started is like, yeah, my situationship tried to break up with me, and I went and wrote a chapter about when we were happy.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

And that's anything.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

That's I actually had to, I had to be like, I can't write the beginning stuff. I started towards the end. Like I wrote part two and then went back to part one because I was so like heartbroken. I was like, let me use the these feelings. Like you said, Kate, like being emotionally motivated. I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna feel like I can't write the time we met, or like, well, obviously that's not even how we met, but like you're using those feelings. We we meant we did meet in college and we were neighbors. He lived right above me.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

So that's that's cool. I do want to get into Serial Island. Um I know Jenna, Jenna's the marketing person here, and I know I like I want to let you ask marketing questions because I did I really wanted to talk to Alyssa about her marketing and branding. Yes for new authors.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Obviously, you've been around the block for like marketing, but like are you are you doing like creative like book marketing or were you like in your day job, or is this like a you're bringing what you know into this space?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Um, I'm bringing what I know into this space. So my day job before was I was in social media for um I started at uh Goldfish, like the snack, and then I went to a clothing company for like two years, which is where I was working in the office um five days a week. And I was doing a lot of video posting for them. And I like just learned how to like storytelling through content versus just posting a photo and being like game time equals snack time. Like you don't need if goldfish never had an Instagram, you're still gonna buy goldfish, right? Like this new company that I was at was all like every time, like the more people see this one outfit, the more that they're gonna be likely to buy it. Like we're trying to sell clothes, like your job is to make sales. So I was like, okay. And so that was the first post that I ever did with Call of What You Want was like, I got my heart broken. I wanted to read a book about people that didn't date. I couldn't find one, so I wrote one. And then that was like that is exactly how it went. But it was like boom, boom, boom, to like some Harry Styles song or some shit. Next day I woke up, it was only like 250,000 views, but I woke up to like 3,000 followers on TikTok. I had had like 70 before that. So I was like that, you know, again, low view, lower view, but like high engagement like rate there. And I just kept like kind of mimicking that my whole time I was like writing call it way, you want to keep the people interested, or I'd sit down in the with the camera and kind of take them through that. So I do think that a lot of that marketing was also personally tied, and it depends on how comfortable you feel share, like comfortable you are with sharing that. But I do think I like to compare it to like when you drive by a car wreck, you're like driving, but you like kind of want to see what's happening. Like I feel like people were nosy and they're like, oh, this girl's writing a book about her breakup. Like, I have to read it. Like I think I have like, you know, so again, if like any of your books are emotionally like or or like tied to like anything personal, I do think being vulnerable is like a huge part along with like the way that I marketed. But then I started when the book came out, I started doing the swipes on TikTok, where it was like, if you're in a situation ship swipe, I wrote this book for you, swipe, and then it was like one chunk of like page or quote, and I would just post the same quotes, the like big ones that everyone was reading. And I mean four million views, three million views. Like I would sell one one night I sold a hundred and no, one night I sold 1500 copies in like one day for one of those posts.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

But but if you think about that rate too, like four million views, only 1500 people, like then think about oh, you get it, you know, like people were saving it, probably bought it later, added to their cart when the when they got paid. But um, yeah, I just I don't know. I just these k ideas came to me. I loved seeing quotes when I was going through my breakup and I was like, perfect. I bet if I like seeing quotes, someone else has to. So I'm gonna use my book and make quotes out of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Mm-hmm. And it, oh my God, like this is like if you are in marketing, you not only have like a big leg up when it comes to like marketing your own book because you know what like looks good, you know what performs well. But I also feel like you're more willing to try stuff. Like you're more willing to like maybe not have to think so hard about like, oh, I'm just gonna give this a whirl. I'm just gonna give that a whirl. And it almost like takes the pressure off.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Yeah. Like if it doesn't do well, like sometimes I'll write us up stack posts, and I've been posting those on Instagram, and I'm like, oh, I really like this one, and it will get like 200 likes. And I'm like, all right, well, I still like it, so it's fine. It needs to live somewhere. It's not like about it. And then like two weeks later, it'll actually have a thousand likes or something. Like, you can't like you you have to post things because you want to. Same with like write the book because you want to, not write it because romanticy is trending and I want to be like hop on the bandwagon because I want to sell books. It's never gonna work. You have to do like what feels right to you.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yes. And you have to be like, you are not your book. Like your your brand is not your book. Your brand is you. And when you are the brand, people want to connect with you. Like, I think who was it? Oh, I forget where I saw the quote, but it was like if you had 20 different fans of your book come and sit down at a cafe and come and like randomly talk to you, would you talk like would you want them to ask you about like like read like quoting parts of your book, or would you rather have them ask? Tell me why you wrote it this way. Tell me how you arrived here. And it's all about you. It's like, let's just talk about myself. And it's, you know, like it's it's nothing about really, yes, like 50% of it is your book. That's like one of your campaigns, like, if you will. But they have to have that like strong emotional connection to you as the person. And I think that's where so many people like they're they're not willing to be themselves or be the person that people connect with. I'm like, let's try.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Yeah. That's what I think is so weird. I had to sign all these book plates the other day and send them back to my publisher. And people were DMing, like, how can I get one? I'm like, why do wait? People want me to like sign their book. Like it feels so weird. Like, cause I'm like creating something, here you go, but like I don't feel cool enough. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I'm not Taylor Swift. Like, why do you want me to sign something? Like, it seems, yeah, it it is, it's funny. Like, I do feel like my brand is me. And I I talk about this in therapy too. Like, sometimes I'm like, I feel so self-centered or selfish or this or that. And she's like, Well, your career is essentially you, like you're in a different spot. Like, I hate when my friend, not my friends, but you're at like friends of friends, and they're like, Oh, we saw you went on book tour or this or that. I'm like, I don't want to talk about myself. Like, what's going on with you? And I get it's because it's a cool, different job, but so I I love myself. I love talking about myself, but I also think there's like a fine line of like, okay, you do this for work. It's hard to also then do it like in person too.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know how authors that are like, you know, like Rebecca Yarros, like just throwing that out there, like how she can go from I'm like a person, like leave me alone, but also like connecting with readers. And I'm just like, what a world we live in where people like idolize authors to this degree. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Because we do like enjoy being alone. Like what we do is so solitary that like to put us out in front of people is it's honestly like I love being on here because I feel like it's very like I'm here with two other people and we're just we're being ourselves, we're talking, we're having drinks, and we're chatting about things that I feel like a lot of other people go through that do what we do. Yeah. But then to think like when we get our numbers back for listeners and stuff, I'm like, people are who's listening to this? Like, who is like out there listening? And it's nice, but it's also the most terrifying thing on the planet. So then to think of like three million people viewing your post, like from your bedroom, right by yourself.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

And that's well, and I think that's too why like I took those reviews at first so um harshly. When you talked about imposter syndrome on your episode with uh Meg Rosenthal, I can relate to that from like a cr just a standpoint of like, yeah, I had feelings, I wrote this book, and people then ripped me to shreds on Goodreads. I think not realizing, and even maybe they did realize it and didn't care, but that these were like this was a real person and those were my real feelings. Cause even though it's fiction, like so much of Sloan in this book is my like what I went through. Like, how could it not be? And so to have like those, those comments like felt really tough for me. But I was like, also let me think of the people that it helped instead of, you know, the people that didn't like it and decided to go and tell me why on good reads. And but I think that's that's the tough part of like this industry is like, yeah, you're sitting here. I think you're gonna get much more positive feedback when you're actually your true self and you're being authentic and vulnerable than trying to be a version of you to like that everyone's gonna like because newsflash, not everyone's gonna like you or your book, which is totally fine. Like all three of us probably have a different favorite author book, and like it's normal.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Yeah, like I don't want everyone to like me. Yeah, is that weird? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

I wrote this for a very specific person, and if it's not you, that's totally fine.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

But yeah, like there are other books for you in the in the sea. Like it doesn't need to be mine.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I feel like in serial isle, you talk about authenticity a lot and how that works for your main character in that book, and and she definitely uses that. So I feel like that this is this is a theme in general in the next chapter for you.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Yeah, I know I did um base Ainsley a little bit off of myself in the sense that I was on book tour and I was like, this is really cool. I don't really feel like I get to hear about authors doing this. Like, why don't they vlog? And like that's why I like this space that you guys are creating too. And that's why I created my writing community, Hot Girls Who Write, because like you said, Kate, writing is so solitary, but like getting to be on here and talk to other people and realize, like, oh, we all have these same feelings, or maybe you're struggling with this and I'm struggling this with this, and helping each other through that. I felt that way too with book tour. I was like, oh, I'm I want to vlog this this time because maybe another author wants to watch because they're interested, or because they want to aspire to get there, or because they're going on their first tour and they're nervous or something, just to and also to have the memories for myself. Like I don't care if it gets one view or like a thousand views. And so when I was on that tour, I was like, this could be a really fun like way to like I wanted to write a book about an author because it's such it happened to me kind of randomly. Like I never planned for to to write a book or anything, and then now I'm like, wow, I can't imagine my life without it. So she is kind of me. I'm I I see parts of myself in both of these characters, and like you said, I think being emotionally motivated is like the the only way that I can write.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

So when you started How to Find Love in the Serial Isle, were did you kind of know that you wanted like this theme of like authenticity and being yourself versus what everyone is kind of like telling you to be? Or is that something you just like unearthed? You're like, oh, I sense a theme here.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

No, definitely I unearthed that. This book would look really different when it first started. It actually was mostly a breakup book. So those past chapters that like I do think some people think take away from that love story, and maybe that's where it becomes a little bit more women's fiction. Um, that was like the entirety of the book. And my editor was like, hey, there's like no plot here, like there's no commercial hook. It's just like, if what's going on? And I was like, Yeah, you know what? That's so fair. Like, and so she was actually the one who kind of came up with the idea of like, why don't we have her like go on dates when she's on book tour? And I was like, Okay, but if she's going on dates when she's on book tour, like she's probably doing them on hinge or bumble, and like then every date's like gonna look the same, you know? And I when I was on book tour, I met this guy in the airport um like security line, and we wound up becoming like friends. We like exchanged Instagrams, like we almost went on a date last time. I was like in his city, never worked out. Um, and I was like, this could be really fun. Like, that's a cute meet cute to put in a book one day. And I thought I was gonna write a whole nother book about two characters, that's how they meet. But then that's how we came up with the meet cute mission where she puts herself into these really cringy situations that I would never, by the way. Like, I would rather die than like, but um, yeah, so that it was I that was really the main theme. Everything that she feels as an author is me a hundred percent like over. Not the writer's block piece, because I haven't I've felt that sitting down and staring at an empty page, but I've never been like, wow, I can't write another story, like you know, but I felt like that was true to her.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yes. Oh my god, like we've we've been talking all about you and you're fun. Let's talk about let's talk about your other accomplishments.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

God, yes. Um, well, I thank you. I love Hot Girls Who Write. I I don't view it as an accomplishment. I kind of just view it like as a space that like I don't I you know, but I when I was indie publishing or indie rec what yeah, when I was an indie author and even when I was just writing that book, there were so many people that I would like look up to. I saw there was some people that went indie to trad and I would DM them because I was really confused. Like, do you get a literary lawyer? Is this agent percentage like standard? Like, do I have someone look over the contract? Like just at random questions and no one would ever answer me. And I was like, perfect. So that was a big motivator of me for me creating Hot Girls Who Write was just like creating a space where people could ask questions and and share experiences and resources. And I also was in this um workshop cohort type of thing for a semester where we would do weekly write-ins where we would just write on our projects and like go on mute. And I was like, maybe this is like a way for me to create something that didn't cost me $600 for six weeks. But um, yeah, I wanted to be inclusive. And hot girl, you don't have to be a woman to join, like it's just an energy. Hot people who write didn't sound the same. Hot girl, we call it like a mindset, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Um just I have to love that. People didn't sound right.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Did it?

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Oh, because you're totally right.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I like I I don't know. I loved it because I just, yeah, I want to call myself a hot girl who writes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

I'm like, hey, and every Patreon post I'm like, hey hot girls. To get through the next one. Yeah, sometimes you need a reminder. Like, we're all hot and we write.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah. Like, I need this like on my little bullish board that's in front of me. Like I'm some exactly like it. Oh my god, do you remember the Ryan Gosling? Like, hey girl. Hey girl. Yeah. It's like that, but it's like hey high girl who writes.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah, hey girl, I don't think that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

I love it. I know. I need to get like merch done sometime soon. I was thinking about that.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

You guys don't have a merch. Yeah. What? Your merch would kill.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Oh my god, it would slay so hard. And I love how you you built it out of like necessity. So you're like, there is a hole here and we need to fill it, and we need to fill it now. I feel like you can go to any like writers association and you're bombarded with resources, but is it catered to you and your writing journey? No. Are you going to be able to use every single one of them? Probably, but do you need to? Probably not. So I I just love how you like you're you're essentially doing exactly like what we're doing of like you saw a hole, you wanted to fill it, you wanted to bring people together. And it's like this beautiful little moment that I'm so thankful that writing gave us. Like it is a solitary thing, but when you get to connect with other solitary indoor cats, it's really fun.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Yeah. No, it's so fun. Before every write-in, we go around and say our writing win of like the week. Um, so you get to like get to know people when they have a release, we'll celebrate that. Um, like just anything. I mean, even if they have a heart something hard going on. I try to put the money I get back into the community too, and like other ways. Um, but someone's like parent died, and I sent a DoorDash gift card from all of us, like to make sure that they just had didn't have to deal with food for like that week or something, or you know, like there's just everyone is people too. It's like, and I I do feel like we'll go in there and some people are like, yeah, I wrote 2,500 words, and someone's like, I actually took a thousand words out of my manuscript, or I haven't written in weeks, and my win is just showing up. Like everyone's at different stages, but it, you know, it doesn't make anyone's stage less than. Like, I think we're all, you know, different struggles.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Totally. And and and we like, yeah, we definitely preach like a lot about community and and even just engagement together. And so anyway, thank you for creating that space because it is like it is really cool. We need to encourage people, more people to to join those spaces because they do seriously make a difference. It's branded really well because you're really good.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

It's just my it's just my thing. I don't know. It's killing when I saw some of the book covers for serial aisle. I was like, no.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

We have to go back to the drawing board so many times. And I felt so bad, but I was just like, seriously, like that, like what? But we got the beautiful cover out of it. Like, I love it so much. The bag charm is probably one of my favorite things, and then this little guy. It's it's brilliant. Like supposed to be like getting a boyfriend's as easy as grabbing a bottle of wine at the grocery store. And this is all I need anyway: a boyfriend, a loaf of bread, and a bottle of wine. So perfect.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

There you go. Throw in some cheese and I'm sold, man. Yeah, we do yeah, the cheese. Using the cheese. But like, how do you make cheese appetizing and in like a 2D illustration style? You do a little hard. If you have met me in real life, you know I'm an actually kind person. But if you would hear the inner monologue that I have about people's book covers, of like, what the fuck were they thinking? Why, who paid for this shit?

SPEAKER_02 35:17

I'm like, I'm also not, yeah. No, I agree with that. And everyone has their own thing. Like, some people don't have an an eye for a design or they don't care about what the book cover looks like. They're more about the story. I have said this on too many podcasts and so many interviews. I do judge a book by its cover, and I do think so many people have picked up my book being like, oh, that's a cute ass cover, I'm gonna grab it, and then they don't they think it's a romance, and then they're sorely mistaken, and they're like, damn, this book really got me. But it's like, okay, you could you could turn it over and read the back. Like, I'm not, you know, just trying to sell you based on the image. But I also think what you said earlier about like marketing and asking, um, kind of how I've decided to market the books. I'm don't like character art. I don't like character-focused covers. Like, I even the trope post that I did recently, I was like, this is usually isn't me. Like, I'm marketing it in different ways. Like I knew that I wanted, I don't know. Like, I'm not doing b the basic things that I feel like a lot of romance authors are doing. And by basic, I don't mean like basic in a bad way. I just mean like kind of their yeah, like the expected things. Um, and I just try to come from it like with it from me. Like what I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Like what and if you have a background in it, clearly you have like a level of taste that people like. You're away taking those risks.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah. Because I think that like there's someone who doesn't, um, there's so much pressure to be like, oh, I have to do what's commercial or I have to do what the market that says that I have to do, and to like to write a romance and not to have like two cartoon people on it is like groundbreaking at the moment. So like I yeah, I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

I was about to just make a comment and be like, if you ever see me selling character art, just know I'm struggling. But then I was just thinking about it more. And like, I wonder if it's actually like a good if people would actually eat it up, but I just don't want to see my characters in a cartoon form. Like, I cannot do that to myself.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yes, I couldn't even picture what that would look like. I I just hated everything that came to my head when I thought of that image. It feels too childish, like, especially with like sex scenes.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Like, I'm just don't, it's not my vibe.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah, I agree. Like, I agree, but it's not a hard choice as an indie author to be like, I don't want character art, and because there's every Instagram, every TikTok you see, it's like here's here's what the standard is. The industry standard is like everyone needs to invest in character art, and everybody needs to invest in like an animated cover. Like, yeah. Ah so it's nice to talk to you guys, and I think on it, Jenna, and and it's nice to hear your perspective, and it's like refreshing because you feel like you're making like a radical choice at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Yeah, I didn't never say never like I might do it one day, or like if my publisher's like, hey, here's all this data on why it would help you. I'd be like, Okay, sure, but like I'm not gonna frame it and put it on my desk. Like, I can't have that staring back at me all day. Like, I just you know, I like the Pinterest photos, but even the ones without people's faces, like I don't want I I don't, I don't know, almost like my characters don't feel like they have faces to me. Like, I can't put the a face to to these these people. So that's why I think the character art's hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yeah. I do love like if this is your vibe post. The almost like the inspo boards love those posts because everyone, like if you're reading a a particular book, it is a vibe. Especially if it's like a dark academia kind of thing of like, yeah, vibe check 100%. Um, but yeah, I just um I have thoughts and I have feelings about all the cartoon character art, especially like you said, Alyssa. If they're having sex, I don't want to see a cartoon of that shit.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Like that's such a thing though.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

It is, and it's weird.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

It's weird, it's like anime. Like, I don't or like, yeah, I don't I agree.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

So we are at an hour. I don't want to take any more of your time because we could definitely talk for more than a couple of hours.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Um, so how to find love in the serial aisle releases on August 4th. It's by sophomore novel, and it follows Ainsley Green, who's a romance author who just got broken up with, and she's going on her first book tour, and she has a new romance novel to deliver to her editor, and she's feeling really stuck, and she creates this mission, meet cute mission to try to gain inspiration for this novel. But somewhere along the way, it kind of turns into a way for her to fall in love, sort of.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Sort of you guys are gonna let me can't tell.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Like, I mean, it's like a friends to lovers, but like do I even want to say that? Like, I say it online, but I'm like in the in the elevator pitch, I feel like it gives it all away. So I gotta work on that. But thank you for giving me a space to start it.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yes. But not like I don't know. And who says we have to be all the things that they say we have to be? Like, just let it be.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

No, exactly. Just let it be what it is. Um don't make me have to check a box.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Check a box. It was adorable. We loved it. Thank you for reading. That's really sweet, really exciting for this to be your second book. And yeah, thanks for letting us.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Big fan. This has been another episode of Margs in Manuscripts. Thanks for listening. Your hosts are Jen G. Judith, Kate Wynelovich, our writer and public relations manager is Kate Wynelovich, music by John Wynelovich, editor, Jenna G. Judith, Creative Direction, Jenna G. Judith, and our podcast manager, Kate Wynelovich. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, all that jazz. Um, visit our website at marksandmanuscripts.com, and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.