She Wrote a Sexy Retirement-Home Romance. And Nailed It | Julie Murphy

What if the retirement home wasn't the end of the story, but the beginning?

This week, we sit down with #1 New York Times bestselling author Julie Murphy — of Dumplin fame — to talk about Vera Stein Is Fine, her first "adult, adult" solo romance. The idea started with a random fact about David Attenborough starting a retirement home for actors, spiraled into a synopsis Julie sent her agent back in 2016, and spent years becoming the book it needed to be.

Julie joins Jenna and Cait to talk about writing across categories when publishers weren't used to authors jumping between them, what it took to finally finish this book, and the wild, true story of how the Dumplin movie almost didn't happen — until Jennifer Aniston and Dolly Parton stepped in. We also get into why every book is a handmade heirloom of who you were when you wrote it, and why more women need to be talking to each other about their health.

For romance readers, this episode is a look behind one of the summer's most talked-about books — a Palm Springs retirement home full of scandal, second chances, and characters you won't want to leave. For writers, it's an honest conversation about trusting an idea for a decade, writing through the hardest years of your life, and coming out the other side with the book you're most proud of.

In This Episode

• The real David Attenborough fact that sparked Vera Stein Is Fine
• Why Julie sent the first synopsis to her agent back in 2016
• Publishing across categories before it was common to jump between them
• What made this her first "adult, adult" solo romance
• The full story behind the Dumplin movie almost not happening
• How Jennifer Aniston and Dolly Parton both saved the day
• Why every book feels like a handmade heirloom of a specific version of yourself
• The reader review that became this book's unofficial tagline
• Why Julie thinks women need to talk to each other more about their health
• The line from the book everyone's already quoting

Vera Stein Is Fine
by Julie Murphy

Vera Stein is forty, stuck in a dead-end job, and pretty sure her big life has already passed her by — until a visit to her grandmother's retirement community in Palm Springs turns into a fresh start she never saw coming. Funny, tender, and full of scandalous seniors, this is a story about second chances at every age.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Wanna be Julie's friend so bad.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

I'm just gonna come out and say it.

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Okay. Like, is it is it weird? Am I allowed to fangirl? Like she's uh probably one of the most famous people like I've talked to. Um, because she's like written so many incredible things and she's had movies made on Netflix. She's so fucking good.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Not only that, but it she is famous in a way that like she means a lot to a lot of people. You know, she's had this like impact. And I don't know if I've really or if we've like really spent a lot of time with somebody that has had such an impact on on like their fan base and people and like read their book and they're like, this like helped me, or like this changed me, or like all of it.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

I don't even know what the theme of this episode is. I just have like so many questions and so many like highlighted things in my like copy of it, and I'm just I was like almost in tears talking to Cody about like some of like her lines that she had in her book, and I'm like, I felt so seen and it was so incredible and it wasn't like gimmicky, it was it was genuine talent mixed with just refreshing perspective.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

I'm going into this, and I was like, we're recording this before we're actually talking to her. I'm going into this though, like pretty much picturing her as Vera Stein. I don't also know, I don't think I've ever done that with a guest either. Like, I literally am just assuming that this is exactly how she's gonna be because I feel like she just like she wrote the entire thing in my head.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

She wrote it exactly like how she talks, which is fucking hilarious, and that's why I want to be your best friend because I'm like, this girl's hilarious, and I love her, and I she's here.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

We were fangirling just now. Oh, sorry. Oh no, that's so cute and so sweet. Thank you. Oh my god, hi, I love you. Sorry, I love you guys too. I'm gonna make it weird right off the bat.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

No, checking that box.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yeah, I did it.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

I'm always making it weird.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

We're just doing what's probably just gonna be your intro, even though it was just us chatting, but we were saying out loud our thoughts of how much we want to be your best friend, and that um this is our formal uh application. What is it? What's the what are we? Application.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

This is our formal application.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Application accepted.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

My god, just stop. Just how? Where do we even start? Because you have I don't freaking. You have a repertoire, like a catalog of books that you have written that is amazing. They've been made into Netflix movies, they've been like you have written with your best friend, you've done all these things. But this is this one like your very first like solo adult fiction romance.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

So that's what we're calling it, kind of. So yeah. So are we recording? Are we ready to go? I can start. Yeah, we're recording. You're good. I can talk start like really, really talking. Um, so if the shoe fits, which came out a few years ago, is an adult book I did with Disney. Um, and actually, when I signed on to do that book, it's a like rom-com retelling of Cinderella. And they've got like a whole series of like these adult rom-com books. There's like Christina Lauren did one, Jasmine Gillary. Like, there's a there's several authors that have done them. But, anyways, uh, when I signed on to do that one, we actually didn't know what category that book was gonna be. They were like, we don't know if it's gonna be YA, we don't know if it's gonna be adult, but we want you to do this. And I was like, okay. And so I kind of fell into that book. Um, but and I had a new adult book come out in May called Student Union, which is definitely closer to adult, but still like, you know, we're in college. We're we don't know how to call the doctor for a doctor's appointment. I still don't know how to do that sometimes. So this I really feel like is my first like adult, adult big girl solo book.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

But so was it like a long time coming? Were you like itching to do it, or you're like, I'm I think I'm ready now?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Okay, so what's funny about this book is I actually started working on this book before any of that, like before if the shoe fits. Like, I'm normally not a person who works on a book for years and years and years. Like if it doesn't click, it doesn't click. Like I don't like to hold on to projects and try to make them work kind of like Vera does with her screenplay for 20 years. Like it's just like I don't I don't have the heart for that. Like I don't have like maybe it's enough faith in myself or whatever it is. Like I just can't do it. Um but I emailed my agent John about this book about Vera Stein in like 2016 or something like that. And uh I had been talking to Sierra one day. She was like, Did you know that David Attenborough started a uh retirement home for actors in the UK a long time ago? And I was like, What? Like, that's crazy. What if it's in Pulp Springs and they were all horny? And um then the idea just like like a version of Viererstein came to me like pretty immediately. And I wrote a whole synopsis for it and sent it to my agent. It's changed quite a bit since then. But I was like, hey, I know that we literally just had like the Dumplin movie come out and like all this other stuff, but um like I really want to try and make this leap into adult books. And at this time it was kind of like not taboo, but like publishers were a lot less interested in seeing you jump categories. Like, even doing like a young adult book and then moving into middle grade was considered like, oh wow, this is kind of a big deal. Um and here I am literally just all over the place now. Like, just essentially like me with a breeding kink and like publishing categories, just doing it all.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

I love it. It's like um, it's a diversified portfolio though. Like, I don't know, there's something for everybody and your writing, it just feels so how do you because as a as a writer, we're both writers, but um my biggest or in the last book I wrote, at least I I tried so hard to make it sound like I was talking. Like I just wanted the voice to be like literally me talking, and I did so many things to make that try to be possible or at least close to it, and you just fucking nail it so hard. And that's what I said to Jenna before you started. I was like, I was like, I'm just assuming that she's Vera because it sounds so voicey, and it I was like, I'm assuming this is just how she talks, and if it is, we I want to be your best friend because like it was it felt so natural, it felt so natural to read.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

I want to be on a pink flamingo floaty with you in Palm Springs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Let's do it. Yeah, I would love that. I think that like oh my god, I keep telling my publisher, no one's ever gonna let me do this. I was like, what if we just have like a giant pool party in like the middle of the winter in Palm Springs and just like invite readers to go and hang out? I was like, wouldn't that be amazing? Let's do it, right? Let's do it. I know. Okay, if it if it happens, all we'll be the first to know.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

I will sprint to the airport. Yeah, I will shove the children at the husband and be like, deal with it. I'm going.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Well, flamingo floaty on me, you know. Um, but yeah, I think that um I never had like any sort of formal writing education. And I think that uh if I had, it would have stressed me out too much, and I would be trying too hard to be something in particular. Um, but I of course I want like every book of mine to feel distinct, but I still want it to feel like a Julie Murphy book. So there are things that I know about a character going into a book that like change the way I like talk from first person and things like that. I mean, having a theater background might help, but like really it's just like like I want my books to read like you're like hanging out with a friend and they're telling you a story. Like that's just I want it like Sierra and I say this about our books too. Like, we just want it to feel like you're at a slumber party and your friend is like, listen to the shit that happened to me.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Oh, it did that and then some and it transported me into a retirement community that I didn't know I wanted to be at.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

I know. I, you know, I always used to think of retirement communities as like this sad, depressing thing. But like as I've gotten older and like I've had like the older people in my life get older, and I've seen them move into like more senior living type of places, and I visit them or I help them move in. I'm like, this is baller. Like, I want this. You have a great pool. You guys have craft night. You guys are vicious about your bunko games. Like, I want this. This sounds great.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

It's like everything you wish you could do as an adult.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

But there's, you know, um, there's medications and doctors involved in fall risk.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

So yeah, that's all that is true.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Can I just say that, like, okay, I'm gonna full disclosure, old people scare me. I have no tell me, tell me more about this. No, I did not know the smart UK. No, I don't I'm I like don't do well with old people. I don't know why. I think it's like a childhood thing. My mom was like a like a in-home nurse, so like she would take me to work with her and we were like going to like these old people's homes. But I also come from like a super young family because my parents were like 17 and 18 when I was born. So my grandmother uh she just died recently, but she was only like 77. Oh wow, yeah. And I'm almost 40. So like super yeah, so I've never really dealt with old people, but so this for me was like old people rock, I would hang out with them. They're nuts. Yeah, and I like went to this like fear that I have of getting old and old. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

That's wild. But I get it, I do. Like, uh, I think that so I was the youngest in or well, the second to youngest in my like extended family. I'm originally from Connecticut, and when I grew up in Connecticut, it was a lot of like, you know, you get out of school and a random family member picks you up from school because mom is working, or you know, dad was in jail at the time. You know what I mean? Like whatever it is.

unknown 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Surprise. Um, yeah. So like it could be anything, and so I always think I gravitated towards older people. Like, even when I would do like summer camps or school, like I was always like the teacher's friend. Like I would always make like snide remarks about the other kids to like the adults in the room, and they would think it was the best. And so I think that like I've just always gravitated towards older people, and then um, over the last few years, uh, my life changed significantly. And I became a caretaker for my dad for quite a while. And that just really changed how I thought about like aging, and um, like I used to just be like, well, just turn me out to pasture when this happens in my life. And you don't realize, like, you still continue to live, you know what I mean? And so, like, that point at which you think it's no longer worth living when you're 25 and able-bodied is not actually a real thing. Like you, you just like life changes slowly over time and your body changes slowly over time, or sometimes in an instant, and you just adapt. Um, so yeah, I think that uh, you know, being the person who wipes your dad's ass just turns into a just just really changes your perspective on the case.

SPEAKER_04 12:07

I I'm gonna bring that one back to my dad and see how he feels about it.

unknown 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Okay. I my dad actually, my dad passed away last month. Um, and that sucks. But um I have to tell you the funniest story, my the funniest caretaking story I have with my dad. We've already talked about poop earlier before. I don't even know if we were like talking yet, but colostomy bag, maybe? But yeah, no, not colostomy bag, but he um he had just gotten from like a nine-month stint in the hospital, and he was at home and he was like, you know, I need some help in the bathroom, and I went to help him, and he just like had his like thing of wet wipes next to him, and so I went and helped him in the bathroom, and he's like standing up and leaning on the sink, and I gave him a good wipe, and uh there was a shriek coming from my father that I have never heard in my life, and I was like, What's wrong? What's wrong? He was like, it just it just kind of stung a little bit more than I expected, and I was like, Okay. And I peeked around at like what was on the counter, and I was like, Dad, you handed me the Clorox bleach wipes, not the actual wet wipes. So Dad, I just bleached his asshole. I just bleached your asshole. So people pay money for that. Yeah. Yeah. You got it for free. Yeah, you got it for free. So, anyways, yeah, bodies are funny and weird, but I get it. Like, I uh I I have definitely there have been definitely been like certain people, certain like types of people in my life that I was not raised around that like were actually very scary to me at times as a child. It's very weird and bizarre, but it makes sense when you're a kid.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

On that side of things, like we're technically we will be older parents, but Ruby just gave me so much fucking hope. Ruby for my future. And like her story was like but all of that, I I loved the romance, I loved the main character that was 40. Like, thank you, hello. And but like it was honestly the old people that I that were the biggest takeaway.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Colorful cast of characters, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Colorful. Can you like every freaking person was just so real and so wonderful?

SPEAKER_04 14:28

If you were to use obviously, you've written a lot of books, you've done a lot of things. How would you describe this book in terms of your lineup in superlatives? Because Lauren Oaky, she always told us in like one of our previous episodes, she's like, I never want to compare this book to other books. I just want to say, like, this book is my most character-driven. This book was the hardest for me to write. This book was the most fun for me to write. Like, what would your superlatives be if your you had to put your book in a yearbook of all of your other books?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Man, in a yearbook of all my other books. Um this book would be the book that like got held back like three years in a row and like barely graduated, but when they did, like they like really stepped into their own. So, like, let's go with like um late bloomer. Late bloomer. Um, most likely to bloom late.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Um that's a trooper right there. That is, I don't know, that to me says like that book got through some shit. Yeah, yeah. And it forced its way in.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Yeah. I mean, again, every time I would go back to it, I was like, I was a totally different person when I wrote this, these last few chapters. Like, I don't even relate to that person anymore. Um, so like I had grown, I just become so many different versions of myself over the course of writing this book, but I think it just had to happen that way. Um my awesome social media person, Flavia, uh, saw this review that she's been using in like promo stuff that said something like, Um, this book will do for uh 40-year-old women what Dumplin did for like 15-year-old girls.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

And that's really what the process of writing that book felt like. You know what I mean? That's like it felt like Dumplin was like to heal my like inner child, like the the 16-year-old girl who was just like, you know, the fat girl trying to like just navigate high school. And this one is really like this one is 40-year-old me. Like, if you if anyone out there is like, I want to know Julie Murphy as her truest self right now in this moment, read this book. Like, this is just like this is the closest to me I've been on paper in a long, long time.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

So that comes through so much. Like, how you are able to do that is is awesome. I'm f I I need to know about your experience with Dumpling too. Like while you're here and just like how that that all went down and what that was like, and I need to know all of it.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

So the the short long version of it is that um like Dumplin was a book that was just bought for like a normal amount of money and was not supposed to be like this big breakout book. Like people were like, you know, it was gonna get like a medium amount, like a normal amount of like in-house support at a publisher. And then um people just started reading it like in-house at the publisher and getting really into it. And then it was the kind of thing where like a bookseller would read it and then call like the rep at the publisher and be like, have you did like, did you have actually read this book yet? Like, I really love it. And so it was really just like grassroots support from the very beginning. Um, and then a few months before the book came out, we sold the film rights to Disney, and that was like colossal and crazy and huge. And then Disney sat on the film rights for a while, but they ended up hiring the screenwriter and the producer, and the screenwriter had started working on the project, and then Disney, which is such a Disney thing because they've done it to me more than once, um, was like, you know, I think we're gonna, we're gonna concentrate on like adapting our own IP. So like turning Aladdin into a live action movie or like things like that, which not necessary biases. So I can't say that it doesn't make them money. So I get it. Uh Mickey Mouse has to put a meal on his table too, you know? Um, but anyways, all the people that they hired on stayed on the project. And then when I I got the call from my uh film agent that Disney was cutting us loose, and she was like, Don't go anywhere, you're about to get another phone call. Like, just sit tight. Literally, in 10 minutes, you're gonna get another phone call. And I got another phone call from the producer and the screenwriter. And the screenwriter was like, Hey, P.S. Jennifer Aniston is my best friend. We lived on the same street with like, you know, all these like 90s comedy legends when we all first moved to LA and we all became best friends. And she wants to star in this movie, and we still want to make this movie. So we tried lots of different things. We tried selling it to other studios. Um, we ended up making it independently with like a like a like an outside financier. And then once it was made, uh, or once it was like on the road to becoming made, we got Dolly Parton on board, which was like really locked in the financing for it. You know what I mean? Which is crazy. But that was like the final linchpin. And um, so then we had enough money to make the movie. We made it independently. I would do like set visits, and like the crew would come up to me and be like, movies don't always feel like this. Like, we want you to know, like, this set feels like family and it doesn't always feel like this. And so if you have this experience again, just know that this one was special and it might not be like this again. And I was like, Oh my god. Um, and so we made the movie. Uh, you know, it took a little while, but it sold to Netflix, and once it sold to Netflix, it released in like two and a half months. So it was like a crazy whirlwind experience. Um yeah, yeah. So it's one of, I mean, it's I think it's a great example of like how you can get like a door slammed in your face multiple times, and you know, things can still happen. So that was definitely a movie that was like not supposed to ever get made, and it got made, which was like just a miracle on all accounts.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Isn't that funny how that is a movie that should never have been made? Did killed it, and now this is like a book that you said just shouldn't have survived.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah. I mean, it's true though, like it's just and I think it's like I just kept coming back to Vera. I don't know why, and I'm so glad I did, but like, um, like I uh had a little run-in with cancer, like what, two years ago now. And Vera was supposed to come out like a long time ago. Um, but all these things happened. I became a caretaker, I uh got endometrial cancer, and like I was trying to like finish this book while I was like in the midst of like having hysterectomy. Um, just before I found out I had to have this hysterectomy, we'd bought a house in like another state and we were doing like this huge move in the middle of all this and like recovering from that. It was just like absolutely crazy. And like, this is so much information. I'm so sorry. Please cut any.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

No my no, we're best friends in Gary, actually. This is like so Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Keep going.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

I'm like freaked out we got a cancer unload on each other, but I had this hysterectomy, and they were like, it's just gonna be like a regular hysterectomy. Like, we're just gonna go out and take out what we need to. And the surgery ended up being like hours and hours long. My husband came down with COVID the day before. He couldn't be at the hospital. I was there by myself. Like it was just crazy. And um they were doing like a laparoscopic procedure, and they ended up going in and having to do a cesarean because there was so much cancer, and they had to take everything out. So it's what was called a radical hysterectomy, and it sent me into like immediate menopause.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Um and that also completely changed how I thought about bodies and aging, and like like I'm like within a week, I was like, I noticed a difference in myself and like like my mental state, like just literally how I responded to the temperature in a room, like everything. Um so yeah, that was like that was a moment when I was like, I I think I should put down this book. I think I should just scratch it and try writing something else. Like, I don't feel good about this. Um, but I just kept going. And so I think finally last summer, Vera Stein was finally finished and we could release it this summer. So the the book really went through it with me.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Seriously, like that's what it, that's it's like a weird universe thing. Like, and yes, can cheers to you, ma'am. Cheers to you, cheers to you, because like this is a big fucking week. This is like this feels, yeah, like such a it has to feel like such a celebration at this point, even compared to your other book. I know you've been through this a lot, but like that has to feel like this big week.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, student union that came out in May, and then this book were like really with me through some tough times. And so both of them feel like such personal accomplishments, just the fact that they exist. So that's really how I feel. I mean, I know that like it was really hard losing my dad last month. I was actually on a train, or like I was like in the middle of like the Canadian wilderness with my friends, like on a trip. And so I had no cell service. No, it was really like crazy. It was one of the most beautiful days I've ever witnessed in my life, though. Like, I'll never forget like how beautiful the sunset was that day and all these things. And um I just remember thinking, like, is this like the full circle on like my experience with this book? Cause like, you know, at the beginning, Vera loses her mother, and like it was just kind of like I just feel like with this like final experience before this book comes out, like the way I can talk about this book is so different than I could have talked about it when I first started writing it in 2016, you know?

SPEAKER_04 24:58

So true. And even chapter to chapter, like going back and editing things, you're a different person. Yeah. Like you've had a lot of shit thrown at you. So really, like you you have experienced so many different things, and it shows, I think, in Vera's like tenacity through all of it and her like full arc, and really every character like has a beautiful arc in it, but it's it's this moment where you find one thing that you relate to about like any of the characters, and they instantly like become part of you, and it it's just it rarely happens when you have that many characters. Yeah, like sometimes they just feel like pieces of furniture that needed to be there to build out the room a little. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah, but this was so tangible. Like, I I did like I identify with an 80-year-old man, and uh like I will have a planner when I die. You know, like how can you not just how much heart was in it and I'm gonna pour myself more water?

SPEAKER_02 26:06

I know, I need to take my shirt off. I cannot fucking believe that you were not a caretaker before and you wrote all of this about being a caretaker, and then you literally became a caretaker when this book is be like Joe, what kind of shit is that? Are we like are we this is some woo-woo shit? Are we a little woo-woo woo at the moment because of a lot of stuff? But like, yeah, I think that's so incredible and such like a it's woo-woo, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

It's working. It's it's something for sure. I've never had an experience like writing this book. I don't know that I ever will again. I I kind of hope that I don't.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

No, that's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah, but like I just like, you know, I don't know. I'm j I've just been trying to be grateful for every single one of these moments because um all these really hard things happened and not everyone has the outlet that I did to express these things. Um to like exercise those demons in such like a validating way. So I'm just trying to like breathe through this experience and hold on to it all, you know?

SPEAKER_02 27:22

So like allow yourself to celebrate it. Yeah, it probably feels like I definitely I had a I'm not gonna make it about me, but I've had a very similar experience with my book launched last month. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah. I I I had been writing the book for 10 years. It was like my MFA thesis, 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

I want to hear all about this. Tell me everything.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

No, it's just weird because I'm like, why what? Um no, and it was it was me thesis, it was 10 years. What were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Yeah, I was gonna say I love hearing about Kate's life because it's so much more interesting than mine.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

No, it's not even that, it's just that this has like even just talking to you about and hearing your story like makes me feel like less insane because yeah, it wasn't. A week before a week before my grandmother dies while I'm at her house unexpectedly, while I'm at her house. Like the last conversation is her like reading her name in the acknowledgments of my book and like having this like wonderful, like cathartic. Like, she was just like, I'm just so like excited for this, and she was like so pumped, and she didn't know that she was in the acknowledgment, so like she got really emotional seeing her name. Literally, she died that night, I unexpectedly. Like, totally bizarre. That's wild, weird. And so my book came out four days later, three days, something like that. Like you were flying in like two days later. It was just so yeah, like 10 years of writing this didn't leave my my brain to the point where I'm writing about experiences 10 years ago. And my husband is like, I really don't want to read about like whatever you were going through 10 years ago when like we weren't together, and like you're writing about this like affair you had in France and whatever. It's fine, it's fine.

SPEAKER_04 29:08

He can deal with it, but it was not an affair, no one was married.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

But the three like three nights before, and it was so weird. Then we moved. We bought a house and we moved the same time, the same month. It was the coming out, bought a house, moved here. Uh, and I just had surgery five days ago, so uh seven days ago, so like oh my god, your appendix left the station. I randomly the same month, like so I've been feeling very all over the fucking place mentally, and so like not to say like thank you for also going through really hard things, but like it's just made me feel insane, and so anyway, I didn't feel like I could celebrate the book. I felt like just I was in all these different places at once, and I really wanted to be excited, and so yeah, so I'm just like okay, I'm not in anyway, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

No, you're not in the salon, and like what's crazy is that like uh was this your first book, by the way? Yeah, congratulations. Thank you. First one you should be celebrating this, just so you know, it's like uh like books are like birthday months, like you get to celebrate the first one for the full year, so you go for your celebrations, you know what I mean? Um, but yeah, I think that like all of these things happen to everybody else. Do you know what I mean? Like all these things are happening to everybody else, like life happens in clusters, you know, at least according to me. I made that up. I don't know if that's true, but to me, it's true that life happens in clusters, and um, I think it feels so much more like so much heavier for writers, especially because our when you become a professional writer and like you're actually publishing books, like your career is so accomplish-based and so like like anniversary-based. Do you know what I mean? And so, like, it's impossible to not associate each book with all of the things happening in your life as they're happening. And so, like, like my my life will always be like tied to like all the like I had a like when my middle grade books came out while I was having my hysterectomy, and it was the the day I had to put on clothes to go take a picture of myself in that book, um, was like the first day I had gotten dressed in like weeks.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah, like it was the first day I was TV the other day, and it was the first day I got dressed.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yeah, exactly. Like I like I like the first day I'd gotten dressed, the first day I'd like washed my hair since the surgery, and it was to put a picture of myself on the internet smiling with a book that like I literally could not even tell you what it was about at the time. I was like, hi, I'm so sorry I had to cancel an entire book tour for this. Um, here I am. I don't know, it's just it's really hard to like divorce your real life from your creative life when you have these books coming out because they're so personal even when they're not, you know?

SPEAKER_04 32:14

That's so like I don't care if you're crank cranking out like 20 books a year. Yeah, I they're each like handmade little heirlooms of yourself. Yeah. And there's some there's something to that of when you pour yourself into something else, shit behind you just never stops.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

No, yeah. Can I just say though, we've had two friends recently get hysterectomies and um we need to talk about them more. Yeah. Oh my god. We need to talk about them more. Why aren't women like being super open about when this happens? Because like we literally connected the two of them and we were like, you guys should chat. And they it was like, why aren't people talking about this?

SPEAKER_00 32:58

No, I know. Like you have to like, it's like you gotta go to like a speakeasy on Reddit to find out information about like literally anything health-oriented for women, it drives me banana. Yeah, yeah. God, I like I can't imagine. Yeah. Honestly, if I hadn't like connected with other friends that also had hysterectomies, but like at the same time, like I uh when I had endometrial cancer, like once I was in the clear, immediately two or three people I knew also had some sort of like reproductive cancer come up. So it's like we just have to like be talking to each other about this. Like it's just also go get your coochie looked at, no matter who you are, no matter what age you are, go get your coochie looked at, go get your titties looked at, go get it all looked at.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Um This is amazing. Like, I love this because I was going to ask how much of Vera like was real events. And so it's fascinating to hear that, like you know, maybe a lot of it wasn't, but like it's kind of coming to like the caretaking thing, but also I feel like maybe you weren't an events planner at a retirement home.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

No, I wasn't an events planner at a retirement home, but I am a former librarian, and I uh did all the programming for teenagers at my library that I was at.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Which is essentially just like little old people.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Little old people, basically, yeah. Except they like anime, you know. Um so I did do that. Um, but yeah, my library was like a rural, a rural, that's the worst word of all time, like a small town library. And so we actually got hit with a tornado once that like took out the whole town, and our library became like the Red Cross headquarters. And so, like it was like the crazy craziest, like changing hats moment where I was like, I didn't sign up for this, like I'm not good, and like a moment of panic, please don't ask me a question.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Like, you became the emergency response person.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm like, I can literally show you how to look up like your family's genealogy, but like if you need to know, like, you know, where to go for like medical assistance, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

Like, go ask the people with the red vests and the big white cross. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

I guess yes, that is so good. Um Jennifer Aniston.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Wild, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Is she the fucking bat? I just have to know before I like am like let's wrap. I I need to know about Jennifer Aniston.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

Please her and Dolly Parton, please. All of it.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah, honestly, pissed me off with how nice she is.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

God damn it.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Like, you I don't know. It's cra it's wild to me that you could be in Hollywood for that long and still be that nice, especially with like how absolutely like vitriolic people have been to her, like in the media. Um, like whether it's about like her and not having kids, her breaking up with people or her, you know what I mean? Like it's just wild to me. Um, but yeah, our last night of filming, Jen had wrapped like a few days earlier, I think. And our last night of filming, she sent a food truck to like we were a poor set, okay? Like we weren't we weren't getting a lot of fancy stuff. We were an indie movie, technically. And she sent us a food truck that only served milk and cookies, and they stayed all night and like just fed us milk milk and cookies all night. Um, so like just a good, sweet, kind person. And honestly, like she didn't have to do this movie. Like, this movie got made because she decided to do it, and so she'll always be like the guardian angel of Dumbling. Like, she just we wouldn't have we wouldn't have this movie if we didn't have her. Cause when you go and pitch this to like independent like financiers, like they look at who is in your movie and they sign a dollar amount to that person's name and decide how much money the production of the movie is worth based on who is in the movie. And without Jen, like they we would have been like, you you can have $40 to make this movie.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Here's a video camcorder from the 90s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Good luck to you. Go film Dumplin backrooms. Yeah. Um and then I mean Dolly, like, I just like there's not a bad thing you can say about her. I did this interview with Dolly Parton for um CMT, like country music television. And they we were in this like like pool house at the back of this house in Hollywood. They had turned all the air off because they were recording. It was so hot and sweaty. And uh Dolly Parton does all of her own makeup. She doesn't have a makeup artist, at least one that like travels regularly, like maybe for like special photo shoots or something she does. No. She does all of her own makeup. And I'm just like slowly glistening next to her, and she's like, she's like, let's take a break. And she calls over her uh lovely, like I like I couldn't even say this man isn't his assistant. He is like the the spinal cord of her daily operation, you know what I mean? Like he's keeping things together, he's carrying around like a like a Louis Vuitton bag full of like makeup and hair extensions. Like this man is amazing. Um he's the dude from Veeep!

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah, I'm thinking of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

He's a bag man, yeah. Yeah, he's he is the bag man. What a character. So much more, like just so much more than that, too. He's fantastic. Um, so she calls him over and she gets out her own compact and powders my face. And I was like, I'm never washing off this makeup again. I'm never washing off this makeup again. My husband was like hiding behind a camera and like took a little picture of it happening. And I was like, when I die, this is my obituary photo, just so you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Yes. I would be like, I'm fine dying now. Like, I'm I'm good. Like I did all the things.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

I'm yeah, I've done everything there is to do.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

I'm like, I feel like it's happening to me when you tell that story.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Good. I can't share dolly. Those are experiences I can literally not hold within myself. Like if you think of your body and your brain as a bucket, I have to just remove those things from the bucket and only like recall them when someone asks me about them. Because if I lived with those things in my head, I'd never get anything done. Like ever.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

So there's no need. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

You peaked. Yeah. I don't think it does. I don't think whatever you do, no matter how much success like after this. No, Dolly when Dolly powders your nose. Yeah. There's like you did something.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

What's amazing about Dolly is like everyone is thrilled to meet Dolly. You know what I mean? Like, she is famous to famous people. Like, no one, no one passes up a chance to meet Dolly. So yeah, she's she's the best. I've been oh my gosh. I wish I could sit here and be like, you want it's been almost 10 years since Dumplin came out. Oh, I guess it will be 10 years maybe next year. I have to look at well, 10 years since the book, but like when I want to be like, it's been 10 years since the movie came out, and I'm ready to tell you all the CD dark shit that happened.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

And you're like, there is none. There's milk cookies and belly parts.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

I would love, I love conflict, I love drama, I would love to bring that all to your doorstep. Um, but it was such a pure good experience that I I there's it wasn't nothing, nothing bad happened. Like it, like I just didn't. I mean, we I got in a fight with like the producers and the screenwriters sometimes about like things that you know, like wording on the script or like different scenes, but like I get in a fight with everybody, so you were not you are not conflict averse.

SPEAKER_04 41:09

You were like me. Things were too good.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

So I just decided to fucking throw down.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah. One time I uh Sierra is so conflict averse, like just it just makes her skin crawl. She hates it.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

And uh that relationship because you're besties.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Well, I'm like, you're gonna fight with me. Like you're gonna tell me exactly how you feel because I know that you don't like this. Like, I know that your face is like uh doing the the buffering thing right now. So we're gonna talk about it. So we're she will fight with me and she will tell me no, and that's how I know she loves me. Um, but one time I was I got this like totally out of pocket email from like a random reader, and I was like, this is ridiculous. I can't believe they sent this. And she took my laptop and read it and was like, this is what I would say, and then typed it. And it wasn't that scathing at all to me, but I was like, yeah, girl. And I hit send and she was like, What the fuck? She was like, that was just for us. You were supposed to delete it. This was just like a this was just an emotional exercise for us. And I was like, it was great. I have no notes.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

Yep, yeah, that's like me and my husband. Like, he never tells me no. The other day I asked him to go upstairs and get my laptop charger. He told me no. And I texted Kate immediately. Literally talked to me about it. I'm like, my husband told me no. Like, what is this? I'm like, I'm I'm floored, it's been 15 minutes. Yeah, and he hasn't moved. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Oh my god. Oh, I swear we could talk to you. Oh my god. I'm like, I'm like, okay, we're at 50 minutes. I need to say, did we hit the are there are there are things that we didn't like?

SPEAKER_04 42:56

The only thing we didn't hit was like the date of the book.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Oh yeah. The book comes there is romance and sex, you know, if that's your thing, there's kissing, so don't worry about that.

unknown 43:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

The old people do that and and the 40-year-olds do that, so yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

It's okay to get old, everyone.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

Yeah. What no no no no, no, wait, wait. I'm gonna pull up the quote because I highlighted it in my Kindle and my Kindle app because I just bought a Kindle for the very first time today. And I feel so accomplished. Um, okay. In the end, we're all sluts and then we die. Words slip by.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

I have to tell you that that line is inspired by a line from one of my favorite movies, Jawbreaker with Rose McGowan. When she says life is a bitch and then you die. And I was like, Yes, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_04 43:53

I that was the very first one I highlighted. I'm like, fucking sold.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yours, I yeah. Oh my god. Oh my god. I mean, the quote the the memes and quotes that are gonna come out of this book, I'm calling it. It's so good. I mean, because we're gonna make them. I mean you were gonna make all that.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Yeah, please, please count me in on that.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

I that's I literally think that should be the release sweet content, should just be like the fucking one-liners because they're so insane. Like that one. There was oh my gosh, Michael Douglas. Was it Michael Douglas at the end?

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Everyone asked me this, and I'm like, I don't care if it was. But yes, let's say it's a Michael Douglas.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

I'm gonna just accept that it's Michael Douglas.

SPEAKER_04 44:36

Yeah. We have fucking fucking fuckity fuck is mine. And then I have um, surely I wasn't the only person whose vagina was wider than that appalling excuse for a gusset.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 44:50

But really, what are they thinking anymore with gussets? Like, I I shouldn't get a wedgie in my vagina lips. Like, that's not a thing that should be happening.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

No, like go to any person, go to any person and show them that with, and they will be like, doesn't compute. No, and yet they keep fucking doing it.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

Yeah. This has been another episode of Mars and Manuscripts. Thanks for listening. Your hosts are Jenna G. Judith, Kate Wynelovich, our writer and public relations manager is Kate Wynelovich. Music by John Wynelovich, editor, Jenna G. Judith, Creative Direction, Jenna G. Judith, and our podcast manager, Kate Wynelovich. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, and all that jazz. Visit our website at marksmanuscript.com.